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Author Topic: Should Superman of Earth-A be allowed?  (Read 12802 times)
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2005, 07:40:28 AM »

Just don't forget those citations!  Cheesy
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2005, 10:17:14 PM »

I'd just like to remind people that voting is now open.

S!
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2005, 10:44:56 PM »

Please vote people
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2005, 05:33:17 AM »

6 votes so far.  I guess that's the current roster of passionate Earth-A debaters!  :cry:
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2005, 09:17:47 PM »

Sorry to come in late.  Here's the issue as I see it: Superman of Earth-A would be a short, easily completed entry, he appeared in the Silver Age and there's always the possibility of people remembering him from the JLA tales and wanting to look him up.

On the other hand, JLA has to date not been a canon source for this project, and if memory serves this was a one-off tale that (a) had to wipe out established continuity in order to happen and (b) was itself wiped out at story's end, so that it never happened.  If this is the story I read in my "Crisis on Multiple Earths" TPB, none of the participants from the JSA or JLA retained any memory of what happened...for all intents and purposes, it didn't happen.  You could even make the argument that it was an "imaginary" story no different from a "What if Bruce Wayne was Superman" tale (how are we handling those?).

My gut reaction would be that this character has no bearing on "true" DC continuity and anyway only appeared in a non-canon source, so leave him out.  But I am open to arguments.  Again, if we have a precedent of accepting imaginary Supermen (be it an alternate Lex, Bruce, Jimmy or whomever) I might be more inclined to let this guy in.  But I'm reluctant to allow a JLA tale as that would set a precedent for including other JLA tales.

SuperMonkey, where did Fleischer include a Limited Collector Edition story?  I thought the period covered by the Great Superman Book ended with 1964...the Limited Collector Edition series didn't start til around 1972. And did he really include incidents from All-Star?
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2005, 09:30:31 PM »

Quote
Again, if we have a precedent of accepting imaginary Supermen (be it an alternate Lex, Bruce, Jimmy or whomever) I might be more inclined to let this guy in.


There is: http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Category:Imaginary_Stories

Quote
SuperMonkey, where did Fleischer include a Limited Collector Edition story? I thought the period covered by the Great Superman Book ended with 1964...the Limited Collector Edition series didn't start til around 1972. And did he really include incidents from All-Star?


That list is taken from from the start of the book in the abbreviations page.
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 01:28:23 PM »

I'm still thinking. :-)  And here's my thoughts:

As Superman of Earth-A only appears in one JLA story -- and even that one performs a self-retcon at the end so it never happened -- the real question at issue is not "shall we include Superman of Earth-A" but rather "Shall we revise the list of canon sources to include the Justice League of America?"  

In considering this question, and in view of Super-Monkey's report that All-Star Comics was among Fleischer's canon sources, I decided that inclusion of any Justice Society adventures in TGSB could be construed as a precedent for including JLA stories.

I checked and Fleischer does indeed list All-Star Comics in his abbreviations at the front of the Great Superman Book.  However, in the entire run of AS (at least in the time period covered by Fleischer), Superman made only two appearances, one of them a throwaway cameo in #7, and the other -- the only one that could really count as a Superman adventure -- was issue #36, wherein Superman encounters "The Wrecker," a man turned evil by the Stream of Madness, Koehaha.  I looked everywhere I could think of in Fleischer's book and there is no reference to the JSA, Koehaha or this version of "the Wrecker" (though there is an entry for another character by that name).

Thus, unless someone else knows where Fleischer actually references an All-Star issue in the body of the encyclopedia, I'm inclined to rule his inclusion of All-Star on the abbreviations page irrelevant to this matter. (Incidentally, he also includes "Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane" -- but not "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen" -- and "Limited Collector Edition", though again I do not see them referenced in any entries in the book).

Also it should be remembered that JLA began its run in 1960, well within the period covered by Fleischer.  If he'd wanted to include JLA stories, he would have.

So...I'm inclined to vote "no" on the Superman of Earth-A since, in my view, he's not nearly important enough to justify a precedent that would open the door to every JLA story.  

On the other hand, it could well be argued that since Fleischer included All-Star, it means he considered those stories part of canon, even if he ultimately forgot to include the actual stories.  And in the same way that we have adopted to our "canon" list Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen issues -- which like AS, Fleischer included in his abbreviation while never (unless I missed something) referencing them -- we might also adopt All-Star Comics to our list as well.

Seeing as how the book resumed publication in 1976 and soon featured you-know-who rather prominently, this would give us an opening to flesh out the "Superman of Earth-2" entry. Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2005, 04:00:00 PM »

It's a moot point now...
He appeared in 3 main stories and two covers on the later series.

Covers below, just click on the links to view them.

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2321/400/2321_4_62.jpg
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2321/400/2321_4_74.jpg


This entry was not intended to open the floodgates to every Justice League story and character ever, just that one fellow.

This was to be a special case type of deal. For characters from non-canonical sources, can not just be added (though many people have tried! putting hyperlinks, all red for now, for people who never appeared in Superman's books) they must be voted upon.

For example future debates can be for such entries as:

Muhammad Ali and the aliens in that story
Photonucleic Effect
Mole-Men
The characters from "The 2nd Coming of Superman" from Superman
Spectacular #5
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