Meta: The Peanut Gallery

[King Krypton]

Administrator's note: this topic has been split from this one.

Well, you can stick a fork in this movie; it's done.

The SDCC footage that was said to have gotten a standing ovation finally hit the 'Net in the 22nd blog at http://www.bluetights.net...and the reaction to the footage was resoundingly negative. Screen caps of said blog can be found here:

http://www.kal-el.org/blog022/

Routh was excoriated in every conceivable way. His looks, his build, his costume, his hair, his voice...he's been condemned as a total pretender to the throne.

Bosworth was trashed for much the same reasons.

Langella was slammed for being too fat and too bald (he keeps his hair cut short).

The unfinished FX shots (a flying sequence and Superman coming out of his Kryptonian travel pod) were flayed for looking phony.

The deco set designs were trashed for being "too dark," "too gothic," "too Batman-like," "too outdated," and "not modern enough."

The hazy Sky Captain cinematography was bashed for being "too ugly," "too rusty and dingy," and "not bright enough for Superman."

The use of the John Williams music has been taking more abuse than ever.

Further, the claims of a "standing ovation" at the SDCC...well, that was just WB spin-doctoring. The real reaction, as proven by the response to the blog, is solid and total rejection. People who were supporters of Singer have fast changed their tune, those who wanted the Byrne version of Superman on film have become more virulent in their protests, the Wellingites are now 100% convinced that WB will make a Tom Welling Superman movie/TV show spun out of Smallville as an apology for SR, and worst of all, the fanbase has gone from championing the JJ Abrams/Jon Peters/McG/Brett Ratner script (which they still want back, by the way) to now demanding the return of Tim Burton and his "darker, more murderous" non-flying Superman with the knife-emblem, Supermobile, and translucent "see my guts" suit. I'm not kidding. They actually want Burton and his Wacko Jacko Supes back instead of a movie based on the pre-Byrne Superman.

The buzz on Superman Returns is now officially WORSE than Catwoman, and it's only going to get worse as the film nears release. This movie's going to be The Island in a red cape.

[Great Rao]

I've watched the SDCC movie footage from blog 22 (5:19 to 6:08 ) many times.

It's absolutely fantastic.  I give it a standing ovation.

[nightwing]

King Krypton writes:

Well, you can stick a fork in this movie; it's done.

Geez, King, you sure hang out at some negative-minded sites.  It wasn't that long ago you had equally dire predictions about Batman Begins based on internet nay-sayers, and that movie was faring pretty well, last time I checked.

I take anything the fanboys say with a grain of salt.  They get up in the morning looking for things to gripe about; it's their whole reason to live.  Maybe Superman Returns does have the worst buzz since "Catwoman" (though from what I've seen elsewhere, that's not at all the case), but in the end what killed Catwoman was not the opinions of fanboys, it was the fact that it was a bad film.  The general public stayed away in droves, and not because of what comic book readers said about the movie, not because it wasn't "Selina Kyle," etc.  It was because reviews were almost all negative and word-of-mouth from early audiences was even worse.

The truth is the only people who DID see Catwoman were fanboys, comic geeks who will go see any movie based on a comic regardless of how bad it is.  They will complain about the Fantastic Four, but they'll see it.  They'll complain about Constantine, but they'll see it.  The one group Hollywood can count on seeing comic-based movies is comics fans.  The problem comes in when they are the ONLY ones going, because there aren't that many of them.  

In other words, these guys complaining about the Superman movie will be the first in line to see it, if for no other reason than to say "I told you so."  Of course if it ends up being good, they'll claim they knew it all along.

Monkeys with keyboards.

I am perplexed by some of Singer's choices -- the reliance on elements from films the cultural cache of which expired decades ago seems to run against all marketing logic -- but I can't pass judgement today on a film that's not even finished lensing yet!  Some signs are encouraging...I like the glimpses of Metropolis skyline (the "Sky Captain" look is a good idea...I just wish this was a 40s period piece!) and what I've seen of the flying effects is fine.  I'm not as happy about Routh, just because he looks way too young for the part.  But then I thought the same about Matt Damon as Jason Bourne until I saw him action (wow!), so who knows.  His voice is good.  

I'll be interested to see how Singer brings it all together, if indeed he can.  But I'm not concerned about what the Byrne fans, the Welling fans or the post-Crisis crowd thinks.  None of us will get 100% of what we want, and that's probably not even possible given all the faces Superman has worn over time...your Supes is likely not my Supes.  But if there's one constant over time it's that fans resist change.  I had trouble with Chris Reeve replacing George Reeves and Michael Keaton replacing Adam West.  Today's boards are full of people insisting Keaton can never be outdone by Bale.  In ten years whoever replaces Routh will face the same complaints.  Yadda yadda yadda.  The point being, no matter how much this fan or that one dislikes one choice or other, it doesn't guarantee the film will fail.  None of us wanted Keaton as Batman, but the movie did huge business.  More recently, almost no comic fans had anything positive to say about "Fantastic Four," but it did well and a sequel is in the works.

Bottom line: every comic fan on Earth can hate Superman Returns, but if the rest of the world likes it, it will be a hit.  Conversely, every comic fan can love it, but if the rest of the world is indifferent or opposed, it will fail.  Let the fans rant all they want on message boards, in the end it is the only power they have.

[Klar Ken T5477]

The film will speak for itself when it's done and on a big screen and that will be how most people know Superman anyway - not from comcis but from TV & movies.

[King Krypton]

Geez, King, you sure hang out at some negative-minded sites. It wasn't that long ago you had equally dire predictions about Batman Begins based on internet nay-sayers, and that movie was faring pretty well, last time I checked.

All the naysaying on that happened when it was looking like the movie might actually be good. But when it turned out the film was just recycled Burton-Schumacher tripe with a stupid-looking DKR Batmobile, well over a year before the film' release (set pics and script leaks providing the evidence), the praise was fawning and incessant. The minute there was an actual reason to complain, the fans became slaveringly loyal, and any legitimate gripes with the way things were going were skinned alive in the name of Frank Miller. Batman Begins deserved to take brickbats, and instead it's being treated like the Gospels. Fans don't want quality. They want recycled bilge. The state of the comics is proof of this (Trinity and Birthright belly-flop, but "For Tomorrow" is a monster smash), and the reaction to Batman Begins exemplifies it.

Superman Returns, on the other hand has not experienced anything like that. The buzz has been getting increasingly worse the more things are revealed about the movie, and most of what's been shown hasn't deserved it. But when fans fawn and coo over blatant rip-offs from the Schumacher entries in the Batman series just because it's the DKR Batmobile and Bale's baggy-necked cheapo Halloween suit has no nipples, it's a losing battle. I'm just going to cut my losses now before I toally wind up with egg on my face for sticking up for Routh, Singer, and et al.

I will be amazed if this film breaks even, let alone succeeds. It'll be lucky to do Wild Wild West business at this rate, especially with a $250 million price tag. (Yeah, I thought that was overkill, too. No Superman movie needs to cost THAT much, no matter who's directing it.)

[nightwing]

Well, if you're right that fans only like "Begins" because it borrowed elements from the Burton films, then maybe Singer thinks so too and that's why he's borrowing from Donner's Superman?

Again, I think you're overestimating the importance of fan opinion, which I place somewhere between little and none.  Superman is bigger than comic book readers, he belongs to the general public.  Radio put him on the cultural radar, 50s TV put him over the top and movies put him back again.  What the average Joe knows about Superman comics would fill a thimble.  In the end, if this is a good movie, it will do well and if not, it won't, period.  

As for the price tag, I don't know if the whole $250 mil is going into the production.  What I heard a few years ago is that they were already $100 mil in the whole after paying for all the screen treatments that went nowhere and paying off Burton, Cage and others who had "pay or play"-like contracts that came to nothing.  So maybe they're counting that sum in the total.

[Great Rao]

King Krypton, I read through the forum on bluetights.net that you refer to - and I didn't see anyone complaining at all.  In fact, the footage got a lot of praise and seems to have generated a lot of positive excitement.

So just where are these alleged nay-sayers?

[Gangbuster]

On the Smallville forums. The naysayers tend to be

a) Smallville fans who either think it's stupid to have anybody playing Superman other than Tom Welling, or just don't like Superman

or

b) Post-Crisis comics fans who want to see Superman bleed all over the place and fight Doomsday, or are concerned about Lois being seen with a baby

or

c) highly illogical people, who are scared that the movie will have 70s special effects