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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 88643 times)
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #128 on: October 23, 2005, 04:47:18 PM »

Quote from: "Maximara"
Like the totally idiotic one where Superman is clasified as 4f because he accidently used his X-ray vision to see the chart in the next room.

He was still learning to control his powers then.  Smiley

These days, he wouldn't get past the blood test.
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Johnny Nevada
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« Reply #129 on: October 24, 2005, 03:45:32 AM »

Quote from: "Maximara"
On the issue of the current Superman verses the ones of days gone by we are treated to the best those ages has to offer in reprints. The 'what were they thinking?' or 'were they thinking?' stories are quietly filed away.

Like the totally idiotic one where Superman is clasified as 4f because he accidently used his X-ray vision to see the chart in the next room. Then instead of finding a way go join up as Superman he just putters around the US fighting bozos the JSA could have easily handled if Superman had had enough brains to tell his friend what the sam hill was going on.  The after the fact Spear of Destiny retcon fixed this but until it did there were a lot of things wrong with that picture.

The Earth-1 Superman had similar problems especially when the more 'realistic' Bronze Age came along. Superman's non-involvement in Korea or Vietnam was never really delt with. Then there was the constant idea Lois had that somehow Clark Kent and Superman were the same person even though he had made it appear they were two seperate people more times than I can count.

Also that Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor never figured out Superman and Clark Kent were the same person was increadable. Luthor knew Superman had some form of secret identity and that he had once been Superboy. The number of people whose leaving Smallville and arriving in Metropolosis that matched the departure of Superboy and the appearance of Superman likely could be counted on one hand. Luthor with his obsesion and his brain should have figure it out with a speed rivaling that of his Bryne counterpart.


As a rule, Superman (outside of the World War II stories seen, both in the 1940's and in the "All Star Squadron" flashbacks) doesn't get involved in wars... thus, the Earth-1 Superman wasn't any more involved in Vietnam than the current guy was in the two Gulf Wars. Plus, it wouldn't have been good for sales probably in the 60's/70's for SUpes to get caught up in a controversial war... :-)  

Would guess the Vietnam War's controversialness would've made it off-limits for any in-depth analysis for the 80's Superboy stories as well (after they moved his time-era up to the sixties)...

Not sure if the pre-Crisis Luthor really cared about secret identities as much as Lois seemed to harp on the issue...
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Gary
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« Reply #130 on: October 24, 2005, 03:39:35 PM »

Even for a non-controversial war like WWII (the big one), it would be pretty tough to write someone like Superman into it. He quite clearly out-powers any of the forces that are on the field in real life. If the other side doesn't get any comparably powerful superhumans, the war will be over pretty quickly, and the normal human troops are really kind of superfluous since Superman can fight the battle for them much better than they can. If the other side do have comparably powerful superhumans, then the normal human troops are still at least cast into a secondary role, since the conflict between the superhumans is likely to be the deciding factor, and it's still likely to be over quicker since battles between superheroes don't usually take several years to resolve the way conventional wars do. So either way, you've marginalized the people who in real life are fighting the war.

Supes' code vs. killing is another huge problem. You can't have a war without killing. Maybe if you wanted to do a story where Supey has to readjust his principles and come to terms with a view where killing is sometimes necessary, it might work.

Kurt Busiek, if you are reading this thread, I wonder what your thoughts on this are.
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Great Rao
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« Reply #131 on: October 24, 2005, 11:11:20 PM »

Quote from: "Gary"
Even for a non-controversial war like WWII (the big one), it would be pretty tough to write someone like Superman into it.

http://superman.nu/tales2/endsthewar/

I don't see any need for Superman to be involved with "normal human troops" - it would be like a guy squashing ants.  No need for him to be concerned about them as a threat; if anything, he would probably feel sympathy for the troops on both sides, that they were all needlessly being killed.

If he did get involved in a war, he would probably just go after the "big boss" (or bosses) - the force(s) behind the war, those responsible for all the deaths on both sides.

As far as Superman and WWII, Siegel and Shuster did write a tale where Superman just up and stopped the war in two pages (see above link).  For them, Superman was always about wish fulfillment - whether it's being Lois's unattainable heart-throb, stopping bullies, getting bank robbers, or halting global conflict.  Once Superman stops fulfilling those wishes, he isn't Superman anymore.  DC may curently claim that this story is a "what if," but I firmly believe that in S&S's minds, it was real.  Perhaps there is an Earth-something (could it be Earth-2?) where this story took place - and Superman did indeed end the war.

S!
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
Johnny Nevada
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« Reply #132 on: October 25, 2005, 04:30:57 AM »

Quote from: "Great Rao"
Quote from: "Gary"
Even for a non-controversial war like WWII (the big one), it would be pretty tough to write someone like Superman into it.

http://superman.nu/tales2/endsthewar/

I don't see any need for Superman to be involved with "normal human troops" - it would be like a guy squashing ants.  No need for him to be concerned about them as a threat; if anything, he would probably feel sympathy for the troops on both sides, that they were all needlessly being killed.

If he did get involved in a war, he would probably just go after the "big boss" (or bosses) - the force(s) behind the war, those responsible for all the deaths on both sides.

As far as Superman and WWII, Siegel and Shuster did write a tale where Superman just up and stopped the war in two pages (see above link).  For them, Superman was always about wish fulfillment - whether it's being Lois's unattainable heart-throb, stopping bullies, getting bank robbers, or halting global conflict.  Once Superman stops fulfilling those wishes, he isn't Superman anymore.  DC may curently claim that this story is a "what if," but I firmly believe that in S&S's minds, it was real.  Perhaps there is an Earth-something (could it be Earth-2?) where this story took place - and Superman did indeed end the war.

S!


Not Earth-2, I'm afraid---there, World War II went on as scheduled, with Hitler's use of the Spear of Destiny keeping the JSAers adversely affected by magic from entering Axis territory. This included Superman, natch.
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Great Rao
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« Reply #133 on: October 25, 2005, 04:36:19 AM »

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
Quote from: "Great Rao"
Quote from: "Gary"
Even for a non-controversial war like WWII (the big one), it would be pretty tough to write someone like Superman into it.

http://superman.nu/tales2/endsthewar/

DC may curently claim that this story is a "what if," but I firmly believe that in S&S's minds, it was real.  Perhaps there is an Earth-something (could it be Earth-2?) where this story took place - and Superman did indeed end the war.

Not Earth-2, I'm afraid---there, World War II went on as scheduled, with Hitler's use of the Spear of Destiny keeping the JSAers adversely affected by magic from entering Axis territory. This included Superman, natch.

Then it must have been on Earth-Siegel - the Golden Age as it existed before Earth-2 was created.

S!
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #134 on: October 25, 2005, 04:39:38 AM »

As to the "spear of destiny"...

I suppose that's "canon" (actually, I know it is)...

We need a realistic canon thread...I was on the Superman Homepage the other day, trying to say that stories and their times are related, but most younger folks just kept saying, no Golden Age and Earth 2 are separate...and sure there are reasons to think this, but there are plenty of reasons to think its bunk, based on the real spirit of the origin of Earth 2 as it happened...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #135 on: October 25, 2005, 05:12:03 AM »

Sorry lad, but the real Golden Age Superman and Earth-2 Superman do not really add up, so they can't be the same person. It's not like it's only a few things either, there are lots.
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