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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 91063 times)
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alschroeder
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 09:48:32 PM »

I think "The Theory and Practice of Super-Strength" died when one of the free web servers died, so it's not up anywhere now, but let me look through my files and see if I can put it up again.

Lately, I've been working more on my own webcomic, in addition to work, my family, etc., so I haven't put out everything I once had on the web.---Al
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Al Schroeder III, former letterhack (met his wife through Julie Schwartz' lettercolumns) of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com---think the superhero genre is mined out? Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
Brainiac44
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2005, 10:13:02 PM »

Hi,

It's all over the net now.  All Earths or something like "we were wrong and are going back to pre-crisis"...  Unfortunately, there's the art that's gone.  I was never someone who knew much about the artists (except for the ten last years or so) but I could tell a nice clean line like Boring or Swan (my two faves of all times) Plastino was also ok but it's like he imitated Boring or something...I dunno...
The cold Krypton with crystals et al works fine for tv (Smallville) and the movies but in comics, the Krypton sa was a lot of fun even if some of it (or most of it) didn't make sense.
For some reason, I was sure that in Superman Returns they would start from scratches and bring us closer to the sa comics which definitaly worked even like I said if some things were quite "bizarre"...
Anyway, I was always against any reboot except the first one which established the parralel universes.  
Then (sorry for any fans) Byrne made $h1t.  Superman was rebooted but all of his foes were back too.  Where was the originality of taking Luthor and simply changing a little of what's around him?  He was still the same person with the same goals.  Except that now, he was more Larry Hagman from Dallas than anything else.  
DC shot itself in the %$& with all that - and all their characters.  Since they'd shot the bullet themselves they simply had to go through with the pain.  They did well too for some things but every cover had to be an event if they wanted to sell.  Make alternative covers, 3d cover, death of a character cover, Superman no more cover, ect...  I know I sound like Bessie the 125 year old horse but I don't know why DC made a change to simply make a change.  If they carried too much history well, have some people extra backtrack what's going on.  It obvious that should anyhow have a file on anyone who's anyone in their comics (database) and have a "comic historian" full time who can follow where everyone's going - and the authors could simply write their story and if it was not possible simply change the villain.  
In essence, Superman never changes.  Superman & Luthor - are David & Goliath, God & Devil, Water & fire, ect...  The idea to convey that Superman changes is wrong.  You can have him in another dimension older but the "real" Superman is 30.  He was 30 when I was 6 and he'll be 30 when I die and I'm 89...
...but, the thing is, bring back Superman to his simplicity and have the words "the end" at the end of a story.
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nightwing
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2005, 11:30:02 PM »

Well, it kind of makes sense that Superman-I wouldn't think much of the current DCU, doesn't it?  Though why he'd even bother to follow the "progress" of the DCU while he's living somewhere much better is beyond me.  Heck, I live in someplace much better than the DCU and I sure don't keep up!

What I know about this Crisis I learn from websites, and that's probably the way I'll keep it.  But it's sure interesting that DC's apparently willing to acknowledge what a hash they've made of continuity, and even the tone of their books, for years now.

As for the "S" shield being a bit off in that illo, Jim Lee never could draw it right so why start now?  Personally I find it a little more disturbing that the 60-something Lois has such sexy legs and shows them off like a hoochie girl.
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2005, 12:01:51 AM »

Jim Lee draws all his women like super-models no matter who they are.

Big New article on the return of Earth-2 Superman here:

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=261f5541049a19adbbcbd3be9b080562&threadid=46268
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2005, 12:05:50 AM »

BTW, here is the pic from the comic:

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/CapedMan/IC01Last.jpg
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Kuuga
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2005, 12:13:54 AM »

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
Quote from: "Kuuga"
Yeah but how long before Kara gets raped for a cheap sales spike or as somekind of pretenious statement about our "post 911" world? Heck they couldn't even bring Kara back without giving her attitude and having her look up to Wonder Woman instead of Superman.

S:TAS Kara certainly has an attitude, and a whole lot of people liked it.  It's a question of just what attitude.  And tell me, assuming:

- Supergirl doens't check out Superman with a super-telescope
- Superman doesn't really want Supergirl living with him and Loiis
- Ma and Pa Kent aren't taking on any more Super-boarders

where would this admiration of Superman come from?  Realsitically, the pre-Crisis "hmmm no, leave Kara in an orphanage as a secret" Superman wasn't especially admirable, either.  Obviously, the motivation there was to not change the dynamic of Superman too much, but real family changes should lead to real interpersonal changes and sometimes, it will be messy.  It's not an easy problem, and I liked the Paradise Island idea (if not the execution, necessarily).


I agree, you are totally right there. STAS Kara did have attitude and it was great, but the brand of it being served up in the comics seems much much more blatant and pandering to a Hollywood view of teenage girls. Theres a little of that going on with Kara In-Ze as well but I truly feel in the comics it's coming across much more severe.

As far as her living situation ideally I'd have her be with the Kents but yeah that spot is taken up by Superboy. I think it would have been better to just let him live with the Titans or even better zap him into the Legion or just get rid of him. Conceptually I just think he's a bad idea.

As for your statement on the Silver Age, while I can agree the orphanage thing is questionable. But to my mind the dynamics between the two always indicated a very sweet girl who had alot of admiration for her famous cousin and regradless of the orpahange thing there, I enjoy that.

Involving Batman in her origin and having her stay with the Amazons..it's just too ..outiside, in my view. I guess it's one area where it should be less focused on her and the rest of DC Universe and a bit more on her and Superman at least to start with. It almost seems like they are trying to rush this new Supergirl into the prominece that the orginal Kara had in issue 8 (was it?) of COIE.

The whole "she might be more powerful than Superman" just smacks of overcompensation to me.

Now, as for the Golden Age Supermans appearence please don't get me wrong. I had just as much of a fanboy moment as anyone else when I saw that. Totally wonderful! It cannot help but make you go "hell yeah!" inside.

But this is the same think-tank that gave us Idenitity Crisis and fed us the lie about All-Star being a general audience book only to hand it to Frank Miller allowing him to take Batman to brand new level of Bat-D**kery.

I simply do not trust this company to give us a spark of light without also stabbing us in the back and then calling it "relevence". I don't like to be cynical nor do I think it's a badge of honor. Usually I'd like to think I'm not cynical about most things.

But when it comes to DC Comics, I'm sorry but I'm very cynical at this point. The track record speaks for itself and then theres also the fact that the dark stuff is still selling. So the fans are just as much to blame for this as DC is. Even people who hated Idenity Crisis still paid their own money to buy it, and *then* complain about it. So the machine is still being fed. From where I stand, the cycle seems to be continuing.
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2005, 01:52:11 AM »

Quote from: "Kuuga"
[As far as her living situation ideally I'd have her be with the Kents but yeah that spot is taken up by Superboy.

And Matrix Supergirl before that.  It's an overused idea, unfortunately.

Quote
I think it would have been better to just let him live with the Titans or even better zap him into the Legion or just get rid of him. Conceptually I just think he's a bad idea.

Kon-El is a con...  couldn't agree more.

Quote
As for your statement on the Silver Age, while I can agree the orphanage thing is questionable. But to my mind the dynamics between the two always indicated a very sweet girl who had alot of admiration for her famous cousin and regradless of the orpahange thing there, I enjoy that.

The one thing that made that quasi-plausible was the fact that she knew what Superman was about beforehand, owing to the super-telescope.  

Quote
Involving Batman in her origin and having her stay with the Amazons..it's just too ..outiside, in my view. I guess it's one area where it should be less focused on her and the rest of DC Universe and a bit more on her and Superman at least to start with. It almost seems like they are trying to rush this new Supergirl into the prominece that the orginal Kara had in issue 8 (was it?) of COIE.

Oh, indeed.  Everything involved with Loeb is this big hyperkinetic mess as of late.  I don't think it's Supergirl in particular, if that's any consolation.

Quote
But this is the same think-tank that gave us Idenitity Crisis and fed us the lie about All-Star being a general audience book only to hand it to Frank Miller allowing him to take Batman to brand new level of Bat-D**kery.

Agreed.  I'm quite skeptical, too, overall.  But I was just talking about some finer points of Supergirl.  I like her having more spunk, as long as it's done right.  Good idea.  What's come out thus far is....  ehh.  If they're not going to have her stay with Clark and Lois, and the Kents are "tired", at least have her stay with someone who can deal with a superpowered naive girl.  Paradise Island was a fine idea, IMO.  Execution is another matter.
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DakotaSmith
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2005, 01:57:48 AM »

While I'm excited about the return of the Golden Age Superman to the DCU, I'm not even remotely considering the idea that DC actually plans to reverse direction in their dark, Gothlike temperament in general.

I mean, in Infinite Crisis #1, we have Phantom Lady skewered through the stomach.  It's brutal, it's graphic, and we have all but her intestines spilling out on the ground.  While it's the worst, most graphic horrifying death in the issue, it's by no means the least.

Make no mistake:  the writers and artists currently at DC enjoy writing and drawing this kind of story.  They enjoy wallowing in the muck and mire that is the Goth sensibility.  They believe that life is hollow, meaningless, and inherently painful, and that to believe otherwise is simply to be fooling oneself.  They believe that the only way to be true to yourself is to embrace the horror that is everyday life, wallow in it, immerse yourself in the disgusting filth and revel in the grand meaninglessness and destruction.

How do I know that's what they believe?  I used to be one of them, long ago and far away.  And the reason I left was in part precisely because the whole attitude disgusted me.

But that's what they love, and sadly over time, that's what the readership has come to expect.

I don't see them actually turning things around until they've succeeded in alienating every last reader to the point where no one is buying comics any more.

Certainly they've already succeeded in alienating the very audience that has traditionally been comics' biggest market:  pre-teen boys.  I've already earmarked Infinite Crisis as something my 10- and 12-year-old daughters shouldn't read.  I'm afraid that the horror may bleed over into the current Supergirl title in short order, which is unfortunate, since my 10-year-old likes the title.

Will the return of the Golden Age Superman mark the return of a kinder, gentler DCU?  Given the horrific death of Phantom Lady in the very same issue, I doubt it.

Dakota Smith
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