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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 89377 times)
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DoctorZero
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« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2005, 03:29:11 AM »

My own feeling is that the end result will be the DC Universe heroes finally remember that once there were mutliple earths.  They will be unique in this, in that the general popular won't have this knowledge.
This will end all of the half hearted explanations as to why this character or that character doesn't fit in.  They will know that Power Girl is the Earth 2 duplicate of Supergirl and that the two can't touch one another or there will be serious consequences.
No multiple earths other than hypertime.  No characters will be merged, combined, or be eliminated.  Simple rules, being that alternates have to stay away from one another and that the general knowledge of the true history of the Universe is better off not being mentioned to the entire world.
Lex in Secret Society?  He's the silver age Lex.  He's somehow survived, possibly brought back by the Psycho Pirate.  Or maybe he was somehow outside of time/space and when he came back he found a very different universe, much like the Earth 2 Superman did when he discovered the merged earths.  
Sadly, I fear for the Earth 2 Superman, Lois and all the rest.  At the best they have to return to their pocket dimension.  But considering the way DC has been handling their universe, I suspect they will meet their end.
The post IC DC Universe will probably be darker and very similar to what Marvel is putting out today.
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Kuuga
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« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2005, 05:37:27 AM »

Quote from: "DoctorZero"
My own feeling is that the end result will be the DC Universe heroes finally remember that once there were mutliple earths.  They will be unique in this, in that the general popular won't have this knowledge.
This will end all of the half hearted explanations as to why this character or that character doesn't fit in.  They will know that Power Girl is the Earth 2 duplicate of Supergirl and that the two can't touch one another or there will be serious consequences.
No multiple earths other than hypertime.  No characters will be merged, combined, or be eliminated.  Simple rules, being that alternates have to stay away from one another and that the general knowledge of the true history of the Universe is better off not being mentioned to the entire world.
Lex in Secret Society?  He's the silver age Lex.  He's somehow survived, possibly brought back by the Psycho Pirate.  Or maybe he was somehow outside of time/space and when he came back he found a very different universe, much like the Earth 2 Superman did when he discovered the merged earths.  
Sadly, I fear for the Earth 2 Superman, Lois and all the rest.  At the best they have to return to their pocket dimension.  But considering the way DC has been handling their universe, I suspect they will meet their end.
The post IC DC Universe will probably be darker and very similar to what Marvel is putting out today.


Great, two swirling blackholes of utter joylessness existing side by side sucking all light out of the universe.
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TELLE
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« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2005, 08:26:19 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
George Pérez’s cover to next month’s Infinite Crisis #2:

Just click on the link to view it.
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INFCR_Cv2_GP.jpg


I've seen uglier.  One of my fave "Crisis collage" images is from World's Funnest (Uncle Mxy linked to scans on another thread).  The last word in universal destruction, as far as I'm concerned.

World's Funnest also had the first (and best) Phantom Lady death scene, as seen at the follwing url:

http://www.randominformation.com/crack/24.jpg
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #163 on: October 30, 2005, 01:08:56 AM »

Before Nightwing gets around to expounding on it (heh heh), what bothers me about IC in general and that #2 cover in particular is how this is so strongly tied to both the original Crisis and having to know the history behind that vast collage of images.  You practically need to have a doctorate in comics history to actually get what that collage means in terms of DCU history.  The new reader can't possibly get all those references which is an integral part of being able to comprehend the full import of that cover.

IOW, IC fails for accessibility.

This series doesn't draw in new readers but just mines the existing collection of fans.
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Captain Kal

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Great Rao
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« Reply #164 on: October 30, 2005, 02:06:19 AM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
The new reader can't possibly get all those references which is an integral part of being able to comprehend the full import of that cover.

IOW, IC fails for accessibility.

This series doesn't draw in new readers but just mines the existing collection of fans.

I disagree.  One of the reasons that the Silver Age succeeded was that the DC universe was so vast and complex that people couldn't help but be drawn in.  They were excited by it.  They loved learning more about it and researching it.  The readers gobbled up the new stories, but they also gobbled up the many reprints that happened to explain the back-story to the new stories.

I think people like history in general.  Perhaps DC is seeing the failure of their prior "simplification" effort and so they are now taking the opposite approach - which has been a proven money maker and excitement generator.  Instead of just reading IC, the new reader will also read all the new Golden Age and Silver Age reprints, plus all the "Crisis" TPBs (including "Crisis on Infinite Earths") in order to learn all they can about what's going on.

Old fans happy - new fans happy - DC sells many comics - everybody happy. Smiley

S!
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« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2005, 02:46:20 AM »

One can only hope, O Glorious One.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2005, 05:25:32 AM »

Quote from: "Great Rao"
I disagree.  One of the reasons that the Silver Age succeeded was that the DC universe was so vast and complex that people couldn't help but be drawn in.  They were excited by it.  They loved learning more about it and researching it.  The readers gobbled up the new stories, but they also gobbled up the many reprints that happened to explain the back-story to the new stories.

I think people like history in general.  Perhaps DC is seeing the failure of their prior "simplification" effort and so they are now taking the opposite approach - which has been a proven money maker and excitement generator.  Instead of just reading IC, the new reader will also read all the new Golden Age and Silver Age reprints, plus all the "Crisis" TPBs (including "Crisis on Infinite Earths") in order to learn all they can about what's going on.

Old fans happy - new fans happy - DC sells many comics - everybody happy. Smiley

S!


Well put, Great Rao. The DC Universe before Crisis was so full of wonderful concepts and deep history that one couldn't help but be drawn in. If new fans see all this, ideally, it will arouse curiosity and a desire to know more. They'll only be turned off if the story doesn't catch attention to begin with.

Although, God, I *really* wish if they were going to mine comics lore, they would have gone for something a little better than the original CRISIS. Aimed a little higher, as it were.

Now, here's something about the Earth-Prime Superboy being back in action that Johnny Nevada brought up, which gets one excited about the entire possibility of the series: if Superboy read the DC Universe as fictional in his earth, is it possible he knows all the secrets of the heroes? Their secret identities, and so forth? And further, he knows things even they don't know, like for example, he recalls from the comics he read incidences where the entire DC Universe had their minds erased (I can't think of any offhand, but there have to be stories where heroes had their minds erased of the events afterward - possibly because they had dangerous knowledge, knowledge that Earth-Prime Superboy may know, to the delight of villains with mind-reading machines).

If they want to bring back memory of the old school DC universe, with Earth-Prime Superboy, they sure picked a good place to start.

Maybe - MAYBE - if they don't want to have Superboy know everything there is to know, the writers can create the possibility that the comics that Superboy read diverged from the real world - perhaps Katana, for example, in the comics that he's read, was blonde and Midwestern, instead of Japanese.

Here's something to bake our noodles: did Superboy actually read the COMICS of Crisis - as the Crisis was happening? There was a point he left to the other earths, certainly, but up until that point, he may be one of the best witnesses on this event. On Earth-Prime, is it possible Superboy-Prime confronted Marv Wolfman, maybe rough him up a little, because Superboy knows what his pen is doing? Hee hee!
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dto
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« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2005, 08:05:10 AM »

JulianPerez, you might want to take a look at my post way back on June 16, 2004 (and I've voiced similar thoughts on the DC Message Boards even before this):

http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=924

Superboy-Prime actually has some fascinating possibilities.  First, his personality is significantly different due to his upbringing -- ESPECIALLY his unique experience of growing up in a world where nearly EVERYONE knows that "Clark Kent = Superman".  Clark could have been justifiably resentful of his "fictional" namesake, but instead of rebelling he went along with the laughs.  From DCCP #87 we can see that Clark was somewhat of a "class clown".  

But the destruction of Earth-Prime devastated poor Clark. Remember, his heroic stand with Kal-L against the Anti-Monitor was a suicidal act of despair -- he didn't have anything to go back to "over there", so why not stay and fight? One hopes by now Superboy-Prime has learned to deal with this grief, but it would be an interesting character aspect if his normally-enthusiastic and upbeat nature is shadowed by lingering guilt for not saving his world, the Kents, his girlfriend, etc.

Young Clark grew up during the 1970s and early 80s in New England, possibly Hampton or nearby Hampton Beach, New Hampshire. Jerome Kent had a home electronics and computer business, while Naomi Kent was an attorney.  Apparently he also went to a private school.  Compare that to Superman's small town upbringing by Ma and Pa Kent.  Perhaps Prime would have a more "Eastern Liberal" vs. "Middle-America" political outlook?  What other social influences might shape him differently?

Powerwise, it's hinted that Superboy-Prime might be "in-between" the Earth-1 and Byrne reboot Supermen. His powers arrived when he was 16, unlike the Silver Age Superbaby who immediately exhibited superpowers upon arrival on Earth or the Post-Reboot Superman who never was a Superboy (though Prime's powers might have been triggered early by the Crisis). While we don't know if Superboy-Prime would have eventually rivalled the Earth-1 Superman's power, he had one distinct advantage -- his powers weren't immediately affected by red solar radiation. It's unclear whether Superboy-Prime could function indefinitely under a red sun, or if he was running off his "solar battery" like the Byrne Superman, but Superboy-Prime had a lot of potential. (I can accept sacrificing some overall power for greater versatility.)  Plus, since he was an avid reader of Superman comics, he already had a pretty good idea on how to use his powers!  :wink:

We can assume post-Crisis Kryptonite wouldn't affect Superboy-Prime, since the Byrne Superman was similarly immune to the Pocket Universe variety. So if the new Post-Birthright multi-colored Kryptonite doesn't phase Prime, then he's ONLY subceptible to magic and mind-control.

As for his knowledge of DC heroes -- we can see from DCCP #87 that he was VERY familiar with Superboy/Superman stories, and knew Hal Jordan was a test pilot.  Also, since Crisis #7 was apparently released in early July, 1985 (despite the October cover date), Superboy-Prime would have just read it before gaining his powers.  No wonder he thought Kara's death was an "Imaginary Story" -- he started reading about the Crisis MONTHS before it ACTUALLY BEGAN!   :shock:

Granted, he wouldn't know anything about Post-Crisis characters.  ("Jason's dead?  I barely got to know him... who's Robin now, and where's Barbara?")  And there's a lot that's been completely altered -- thank Rao he doesn't have to convince Power Girl to drop all that Atlantean origin nonsense now.   :wink:   But that still gives Superboy-Prime a LOT of "inside information", and he's bright enough to investigate and figure out anything he doesn't know.  

For all these reasons, I really like Superboy-Prime.  I just hope DC does him justice, and DOESN'T kill him off simply to "shock" Conner Kent into becoming a "true" Superboy.  I would rather have Prime stay in the Paradise Dimension indefinitely rather than have THAT happen... and I still fear DC will do just that.   Sad
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