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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 91168 times)
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2005, 04:36:36 PM »

Ah, thank you, DTO, nice to see you were thinking along the same lines that I was. I hope the DC people see the potential in this character that we fans do.

Quote from: "dto"
But the destruction of Earth-Prime devastated poor Clark. Remember, his heroic stand with Kal-L against the Anti-Monitor was a suicidal act of despair -- he didn't have anything to go back to "over there", so why not stay and fight? One hopes by now Superboy-Prime has learned to deal with this grief, but it would be an interesting character aspect if his normally-enthusiastic and upbeat nature is shadowed by lingering guilt for not saving his world, the Kents, his girlfriend, etc.


This is a very interesting way that his characterization can be altered as a result of what has happened to him; in fact, if Superboy-Prime was as chipper as ever despite what we last saw in Crisis - his despair - that would be unsatisfactory to the character.

Quote from: "dto"
Young Clark grew up during the 1970s and early 80s in New England, possibly Hampton or nearby Hampton Beach, New Hampshire. Jerome Kent had a home electronics and computer business, while Naomi Kent was an attorney. Apparently he also went to a private school. Compare that to Superman's small town upbringing by Ma and Pa Kent. Perhaps Prime would have a more "Eastern Liberal" vs. "Middle-America" political outlook? What other social influences might shape him differently?


Interesting point: Superboy can have a very different outlook from the other Supermen which makes him distinctive, and which makes him worth keeping because he isn't a redundancy. He's from New England, eh? Well, why not have a Superboy-Prime from Texas and from Appalachia, and we've have the Lieutenant Superboys?  Cheesy

Though I don't know if I'd characterize Superman as "middle America;" that "Forrest Gump" characterization, especially lousy in the recent BATMAN/SUPERMAN series where he talks about "the corn fields" and "Well, Poppa always said..." always felt innappropriate for Superman.
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« Reply #169 on: October 31, 2005, 07:13:19 PM »

Since it's Halloween and all, here is a new interview with the Howling about Crisis:

http://www.newsarama.com/images/interviews/2005/wolfman/WolfmanCatchup.htm

It's scary stuff kiddies, so don't come crying to me if you get nightmares.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #170 on: October 31, 2005, 07:41:02 PM »

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
The main reason I think was the DCs at the time were not very good on the whole.


Yeah...and whose fault was THAT, Marv? Was it just me, or around that time was every single DC title written by either you, or Gerry Conway?

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
MW: It gave Marvel fans an excuse to try DC. It allowed them to realize DC had really good characters and it allowed them to start "at the beginning" so to speak.


Actually, this is kind of true; I've spoken to many people that refused to collect DC comics before CRISIS. Crisis, for all its many, MANY faults of shortsightedness, contempt for the past, and crass egomania, did give DC a new image. My question is, though, did they have to drastically affect everything so catastrophically, in a way to eliminate future story potential? Just because the writers can't think of a story involving Earth-X or Kid Psycho doesn't mean that future writers won't.

Quote
NRAMA: Crisis gave new life to series like the Flash that went from cancellation to 20 years of strong sales,


Well, as much as I love and miss Barry, I'd have to say this is true. Why is it that eventually, Hal came back but nobody has thought to bring back the Silver Age Flash?

Two reasons:

1) The Flash was dead, but the Flash's world was intact (the Pied Piper, Captain Cold, etc.), and thanks to CRISIS, they now had the Earth-2 Flash's plot elements (the Thinker, Keystone City) to mess around with.

2) Bill Messner-Loebs, Baron, and Guice were able to make Wally unique, likeable, and three-dimensional, strong and weak at the same time - heroic and principled but at the same time ruled by hormones with a chipper sense of humor, a worthy character that is equally interesting as the character he replaced. On the other hand, nothing that Marz did was equal in imagination to the concepts he destroyed. This was not true of Kyle (ecch), who was constantly characterized as the "rookie" in JLA. Why? Because they had really, no other personality to give him! Concepts were destroyed, but nothing equal in imagination was created to replace them.

And so, this is why Wally (despite Mark Waid's best efforts) is still around.

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
MW: I think the Legion fit in fine. The only question was where Superboy fit into the Legion and that came about only after the decision was made to revamp Superman and that the new version would not have a Superboy, so that was not Crisis related but an offshoot of Man of Steel.  


"Hear that, everybody? It wasn't me!"

A decision YOU participated in, Marv. Don't try to pass the buck when the next guy is yourself.

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
The fact that perhaps the Legion stories weren't  great for awhile may have hurt the book more than anything we ever did in Crisis itself. Until the current run by Mark Waid - which I love, the only other  time - in my mind - that the Legion was good was Paul Levitz's run and before that when the Legion occasionally appeared in Superboy - before they became a feature in Adventure. But then, I've never been a Legion fan.


Wow, check out the sour grapes here. "Okay, yeah, I will freely admit I deprived the Legion of Super-Heroes of their reason to exist, but that's okay, because the Legion wasn't that great anyway."

I really, really wish I could send a slap through the internet.

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
MW: I actually wanted to do follow-up stories but they were never approved. I really do think comic heroes should be more ethnically diverse.


A belief I share; Marv Wolfman did give us the gift of the Asian female Dr. Light, an interesting character that was never written to her full potential.

Didn't Julie Schwartz say that all the females in the DC Universe were either Italian or Jewish? (A view supported by the fact that Julie's wife's name is "Jean," like the good Ms. Loring.)
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
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« Reply #171 on: November 01, 2005, 03:45:29 AM »

Quote from: "Marv Wolfman"
I was asked by Mike Carlin if I'd be interested in doing a follow up story. I had one idea I had never explored in the Crisis - namely showing our heroes trying to save a world and failing before the Anti-Monitor targeted our  Earth.

So that was Marv Wolfman's big, revolutionary idea:  That the heroes were even more angst-ridden and incompetent than he'd already made them out to be, with more failures under their belts.

I remember when he was in charge of the short-lived Disney Comics (which Disney formed a long time ago when they revoked the license for their characters from Gladstone Comics).  Marv turned Mickey Mouse into a costumed super-hero who, unsurprisingly, was angst-ridden and failure prone, going up against impossibly powered super-villains who's sole motivation was to make the "hero's" life as miserable as possible.

Somehow I'm not surprised that experiment didn't last long...

S!
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« Reply #172 on: November 01, 2005, 04:13:30 AM »

He sure is a one trick pony, it worked on Teen Titians however, but that's about it.

Sadly, there are lots of DC writers who try to copy his style, and badly at that, which is pretty scary stuff, if you think about it.
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2005, 01:21:45 PM »

My favorite bit from:

http://www.newsarama.com/images/interviews/2005/wolfman/WolfmanCatchup.htm

Quote
MW:  I think the Legion fit in fine. The only question was where Superboy fit into the Legion and that came about only after the decision was made to revamp Superman and that the new version would not have a Superboy, so that was not  Crisis related but an offshoot of Man of Steel.

Wolfman still doesn't get the problem!   You don't do a reboot without planning this stuff out!  You can't disassociate the two!

<grumble grumble>
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Great Rao
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« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2005, 03:51:34 PM »

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
My favorite bit from:

http://www.newsarama.com/images/interviews/2005/wolfman/WolfmanCatchup.htm

Quote
MW:  I think the Legion fit in fine. The only question was where Superboy fit into the Legion and that came about only after the decision was made to revamp Superman and that the new version would not have a Superboy, so that was not  Crisis related but an offshoot of Man of Steel.

Wolfman still doesn't get the problem!   You don't do a reboot without planning this stuff out!  You can't disassociate the two!


In all fairness to Marv, I think there is some truth to what he says here.  Many people forget that Crisis wasn't the reboot - it was hitting the "off" button.  The "on" cycle came later.  And Marv wasn't the editor/decision maker as to what would come next - he was just a writer hired to destroy the multiverse.

If there was no planning as to the next step, I don't think that was his fault.

S!
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
Gary
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« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2005, 05:06:13 PM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
[Wolfman] sure is a one trick pony, it worked on Teen Titians however, but that's about it.


Actually, he's done his share of the lighter stuff -- like Nova for Marvel, and Dial H For Hero for DC. Both pretty forgettable, but not at all angsty.
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