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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 58015 times)
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #192 on: November 06, 2005, 12:06:15 AM »

While I'm on record for accusing Johns of being overrated, I do agree with Julian, mostly, about Geoff being better for restoring the quality of the DCU.

I restrict that agreement to theme, characterization, and story elements.  Even on characterization, he does fumble sometimes (e.g. Guy Gardner in Rebirth; fortunately, Recharge seems to have Johns scripting a more accurate Guy).

On matters of comics pseudo-science and just plain consistency for super-powers explanations, Geoff Johns is pathetic.  In this regard, Johns would be best advised to not touch those aspects at all but to seek the consultation of superior talents in this area.

While I think Byrne does more harm than good, one area that he does excel at is in novel and consistent super-powers explanations and comics pseudo-science.

My ideal mix would be Johns handling the stories and characterization while he gets consultation from Byrne on technical matters. (Yeah, if we could only get Byrne to restrict his 'input' to this and this alone.)
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
Johnny Nevada
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« Reply #193 on: November 06, 2005, 07:46:29 PM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
Yeah, screw the Earth!

All hail pollution!

no wait..


LOL!

>>flaming homosexual environmentalist

Hmm... I'm gay and think the environment's important. Nothing "flaming" about me, though. :-)


Quote

anyway, I thought it was a good show as a kid, a bit preachy though Wink

http://www.turner.com/planet/


The show had its moments, but was rather preachy/cheesy (recall the episode re:drug abuse that my sister and I found funny for how bad some of the dialog was)...
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #194 on: November 07, 2005, 02:17:00 AM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
While I'm on record for accusing Johns of being overrated, I do agree with Julian, mostly, about Geoff being better for restoring the quality of the DCU.


I agree with this statement. Geoff Johns has overall, had a positive effect on the DCU; hiring him was the best thing DC agreed to do since they let Kurt Busiek write JLA. However, some things he's done have hardly made him the pinnacle of achievement many point him out to be; it's wise to look elsewhere if looking for a savior figure, like maybe Alan Brennert or Steve Englehart, or Kurt Busiek, or heck - even Roy Thomas.

I mean, for example, the goofy story where Atom Smasher becomes a results-oriented "modern" hero with his evil Jimminy Cricket, Black Adam, and the real JSA shows up to beat them up; this is yet another "Silver Age gets revenge" story, and using a cheesy cliche tale is beneath Johns.

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
On matters of comics pseudo-science and just plain consistency for super-powers explanations, Geoff Johns is pathetic. In this regard, Johns would be best advised to not touch those aspects at all but to seek the consultation of superior talents in this area.


What would you point to as being a particularly eggregious example of this sort of pattern by Geoff Johns?

Quote from: "Johnny Nevada"
The show had its moments, but was rather preachy/cheesy (recall the episode re:drug abuse that my sister and I found funny for how bad some of the dialog was)...


I liked several things about CAPTAIN PLANET. Usually, when they had a team of heroes from all over the world, the American is usually this muscular, blonde, four corner buzzcut-haired jarhead that says stuff like, "alright team, let's move OUT!" and "You'll NEVER get away with it, Doctor Velcrolord!"

The American on CP was just another one of the characters.

Wheeler was stupid, to be sure, but he was stupid with a purpose, as opposed to characters like - for instance - Snarf from the THUNDERCATS or the Wonder Twins, or Scrappy-Doo or Jar-Jar, who are stupid yet serve no purpose whatsoever. At the end, Wheeler says something like, "gee, guys, I didn't realize how hard it really IS for homeless people in a big city. Thanks for showing me the way!"

It should be noted, however, that CAPTAIN PLANET had absolutely nothing on SAVED BY THE BELL. Cheesy
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Captain Kal
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« Reply #195 on: November 07, 2005, 02:56:37 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Quote from: "Captain Kal"
On matters of comics pseudo-science and just plain consistency for super-powers explanations, Geoff Johns is pathetic. In this regard, Johns would be best advised to not touch those aspects at all but to seek the consultation of superior talents in this area.


What would you point to as being a particularly eggregious example of this sort of pattern by Geoff Johns?


How about his lame 'heat vision is waste product of processed yellow solar radiation' bit?  Last time I checked, nobody's eyes are a waste disposal system.  In that same issue, he had Kal teach Jor to reset his telescopic vision by 'blinking hard'.  Or how Superman told Jor-El to 'shoot his eyes forwards' to activate his telescopic vision? Huh?  It's just an amplification of normal distance vision so it should be controlled the same way: By just instinctively thinking about it to refocus like normal sight.  I was half-expecting Johns to declare Superman activated his strength by tapping his right bicep three times.  It would be in the exact same wrong-headed spirit.

How about Rebirth where he declares an 'emotional EM spectrum' and green is for the 'will power' spectrum?  Excuse me, but will power isn't an emotion but the appropriate one here should be 'courage'.  And how does Sinestro -- or at another time, Guy -- use a yellow ring tuned to the 'fear' spectrum if it's fueled by fear and not related to will power at all?  It just doesn't work.  How about the purple spectrum power of the Zamarons or the red based powers of the Controllers where will power clearly is a factor too?  So, two boners here: will power isn't an emotion nor the appropriate one for green, and his concept fails on further examination when it comes to other spectra and will power (even in that very series re: Sinestro!).
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Captain Kal

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-- The Dalai Lama
JulianPerez
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« Reply #196 on: November 07, 2005, 06:03:47 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
How about his lame 'heat vision is waste product of processed yellow solar radiation' bit? Last time I checked, nobody's eyes are a waste disposal system.


Ouch! Yeah, I remember that being particularly goofy at the time. Does that mean Superman melts a rock instead of using the Men's Room? It's like something out of a MAD MAGAZINE parody.

SUPERMAN: "Could you excuse me, fellow Justice Leaguers? I have to go melt the rock."

ELONGATED MAN: "Now there's a euphemism I haven't heard before..."

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
How about Rebirth where he declares an 'emotional EM spectrum' and green is for the 'will power' spectrum?


So, apparently, Green Lantern jewelry are basically, mood rings?

According to mine, "Green" is not "willpower" but is in fact, "mildly agitated." Cheesy

Yeah, I can see why Geoff Johns' power concepts ought to be just sort of glossed over by comics history. Though about Byrne having the right idea about powers...well, I'd have tons of great ideas too, if I stole them from Alan Moore.  :wink:
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Captain Kal
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« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2005, 06:38:05 PM »

Byrne didn't crib from Moore for everything.

His take on the Metal Men in Action Comics using microscopic responsometers (instead of huge things that couldn't possibly change shape like the robots were shown doing) controlling metal-emulating polymer bodies was actually pretty good.  It did explain how the responsometers weren't affected by shape-changing and why the robots didn't accurately duplicate the properties of the metals they were supposedly made of (i.e. Tin is actually one of the stronger metals).

It's not Byrne's fault that someone else turned the Metal Men from robotic heroes to humans trapped in robot bodies thus destroying the core concepts of the Metal Men and contradicting much of their history.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
Super Monkey
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« Reply #198 on: November 07, 2005, 07:13:36 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Byrne didn't crib from Moore for everything.

His take on the Metal Men in Action Comics using microscopic responsometers (instead of huge things that couldn't possibly change shape like the robots were shown doing) controlling metal-emulating polymer bodies was actually pretty good.  It did explain how the responsometers weren't affected by shape-changing and why the robots didn't accurately duplicate the properties of the metals they were supposedly made of (i.e. Tin is actually one of the stronger metals).

It's not Byrne's fault that someone else turned the Metal Men from robotic heroes to humans trapped in robot bodies thus destroying the core concepts of the Metal Men and contradicting much of their history.


But, he is also the idiot who claimed that the Metal Men were not made of ..sigh.. Metal, no seriously, that actually happen.
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2005, 08:10:38 PM »

I originally didn't like that AC Metal Men idea though the idea appealed more to me in hindsight.

I've also said Byrne is incapable of discerning the rare gems of his ideas from the plethora of crap he spews out.  What he needs is an editor with the nerve to stand up and say 'no' to Johnny when he crosses the line, and to make sure his stories make consistent sense.  If good editing came into the picture, the polymer idea might have been used in a more appropriate way, perhaps on another character where it fit better.

So, the idea is great though Byrne's execution is flawed -- as per usual with Unca Johnny.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
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