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Author Topic: IC #1 - At last they return  (Read 91167 times)
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DakotaSmith
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« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2005, 03:22:32 PM »

Quote from: "ShinDangaioh"
Right now there is speculation that the person who J'onn saw in JLA 119 is the Earth-1 Superman.

I've been using an issue that was in-contuity to argue that it could very well be the Earth-1 Superman, since it contradicted everything about Alan Moore's story.

Now that things are goinng nuts, he returned.


If so, why would he trash the Watchtower?

On another variation of the "Who Shot the Watchtower?" mystery, when I was buying IC1, the owner of my local comic store (Acme Comics -- two-time winner and current holder of the Eisner Award for Best Retailer) offered a theory.  She was quick to tell me that it's just a theory and that she is privy to no inside information that would indicate anything other than mere speculation on her part.

She thinks it was Supergirl.

Not the Silver Age Supergirl returned, but the current inhabitant of the new Supergirl monthly title.  She mentions the "darkness" in her that Power Girl mentions in Supergirl #1 and reasons that perhaps she was able to fool the Watchtower scanners because of her similar Kryptonian physiology to Superman.

Dunno ... I'm not sure who destroyed it, myself.  Not sure I care, to be honest, as these days I don't really have any emotional investment in the JLA.  Now, if someone trashes the New York brownstone of the JSA, I'm gonna be pretty snarked off.

Dakota Smith
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2005, 04:34:21 PM »

On a brighter note:

Showcase Superman is selling like hotcakes. Comic Book Shops can't keep them in stock!

DC only cares about one thing... money.
So if anything those numbers should give us more Showcase volumes more often.
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Captain Kal
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« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2005, 04:58:11 PM »

Quote from: "Gangbuster Thorul"
Kal-L appears to be flying. And, he appears to be wearing a sweater! These are not things that Kal-L, herald of all heroes, does! It may be DC's 70th anniversary, but this is unacceptable. Who knitted that thing? Is that what Lois has been doing for the past 20 years?


If you look carefully at old GA books and even Crisis On Infinite Earths, you'll notice the 'sweater' look on the sleeves of the original Superman and the E-2 Superman (they are not the same hero, btw).  This artist just made it more obvious.  But Perez had that same sleeve design in the last Crisis.

Also, E-2 Superman certainly was flying in the last Crisis and was flying in the Golden Age in the 1940s.  He only leaped in his early career before learning he could fly.  At least, that's how Schwartz explained it.  Even in the lame Mr. and Mrs. Superman stories he could fly.
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Captain Kal

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« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2005, 05:43:41 PM »

All this talk of killing and nihilism reminded me of a great Pre Crisis Fabulous World of Krypton story.

Luckily, our gracious hosts have it on this site:
http://superman.nu/tales2/letmypeople/?page=1

That is how killing and senseless violence should be portrayed.

They found a win-win solution where everyone could live.

Comics stories should uplift us and help us see what we could be, not the dark failures that we could too easily become.

I agree that with Morrison soon to be at the helm, I can't help feeling optimistic.  His JLA stories certainly weren't mired in the grim'n'gritty, reality-is-pain crap of the other pseudo-writers.

OTOH, it would be nice if the overall quality of writing came up a few notches too.  Regardless of the attitude, bad writing can't do justice to either darkness of joy.

DeMatteis has proven he can do comedy, darkness, and cosmic abstraction.  He has my vote for a great writer in the DC pen.  If only they could be convinced to revive the old JLI/Superbuddies.  It is a shame that even the comical Superbuddies started turning dark in their last appearance.
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Captain Kal

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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2005, 06:56:37 PM »

Quote from: "DakotaSmith"
Quote from: "ShinDangaioh"
Right now there is speculation that the person who J'onn saw in JLA 119 is the Earth-1 Superman.

I've been using an issue that was in-contuity to argue that it could very well be the Earth-1 Superman, since it contradicted everything about Alan Moore's story.

Now that things are goinng nuts, he returned.


If so, why would he trash the Watchtower?


That is what the problem is.  He went to rescue J'onn from the exploding Watchtower.  Someone else is responsible for the tower exploding.  Hank Henshaw seems most  likely
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2005, 07:11:07 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
DeMatteis has proven he can do comedy, darkness, and cosmic abstraction. He has my vote for a great writer in the DC pen. If only they could be convinced to revive the old JLI/Superbuddies. It is a shame that even the comical Superbuddies started turning dark in their last appearance.


Vote seconded!

Nobody can possibly top Englehart's DEFENDERS run, but DeMatteis's NEW DEFENDERS was a good old college try, and while he didn't do anything truly mindblowing, something average and funny is good, whereas something average and not funny is just average. It helps too, that he was working with such wonderful characters where having humor spring from them was natural. Gargoyle was a wonderful character; check out his four issue miniseries if you don't believe me, and it's always great to see some of the Roy Thomas X-Men in action again. Though by far the greatest superteam featuring ex-X-Men has to be Bill Mantlo's enjoyable CHAMPIONS, which was tragically canceled before its time; CHAMPIONS can be compared to the first season of STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, where everyone was just sort of fumbling around looking for how all this was going to work. NEXT GENERATION found its legs and dynamic and distinctive identity the second year; CHAMPIONS started to, with the introduction of Darkstar, but was canceled halfway into the second year. "What might have been..." with that series is one of the more tragic questions to ask.

It's easy to say with the Valkyrie that DeMatteis stood on the shoulders of giants when it came to characterization (considering how she became the center of the first Defenders by sheer force of personality under Stainless Steve), but DeMatteis was able to write her properly.

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
Comics stories should uplift us and help us see what we could be, not the dark failures that we could too easily become.


Both kinds of stories work for different reasons, I think, but generally superhero comics work better when telling the first.

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
I agree that with Morrison soon to be at the helm, I can't help feeling optimistic. His JLA stories certainly weren't mired in the grim'n'gritty, reality-is-pain crap of the other pseudo-writers.


This is true, though Morrison certainly has his share of infuriating pretention; his ANIMAL MAN was confusing, but confusing JUST ENOUGH that people can ascribe whatever meaning they want to it.
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Gary
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« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2005, 07:26:57 PM »

Quote from: "Captain Kal"
All this talk of killing and nihilism reminded me of a great Pre Crisis Fabulous World of Krypton story.

Luckily, our gracious hosts have it on this site:
http://superman.nu/tales2/letmypeople/?page=1

That is how killing and senseless violence should be portrayed.

They found a win-win solution where everyone could live.

Comics stories should uplift us and help us see what we could be, not the dark failures that we could too easily become.


I think neither extreme of positivity or negativity really works by itself -- you have to have a balance.

Yes, it's good if the hero is fighting for a vision of a better world for everybody, and if the hero doesn't act like the ends justify the means. That makes us want to see the hero win.

On the other hand, the only way we'll really care is if we can be convinced that the hero stands a chance of losing. And that means that there have to be some stories where the heroes lose.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2005, 08:24:41 PM »

I couldn’t agree more, Dakota Smith. The reason so many of the creators that worked in the Silver Age were so extraordinary is because they had such a wide volley of amateur knowledge that came from reading and experience; Elliot Maggin’s interviews show him scattershotting, talking about everything from classic film to the Talmud. There was a story about how E. Nelson Bridwell repeated the “Tiger, Tiger burning bright” poem entirely from memory on command in the DC offices.

Most comic writers today on the other hand, read nothing but comics and watch only action movies. If Chuck Austen has actually read a single novel in his entire life (even one of the common ones everybody’s read that are sold in airports, like CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES, DUNE, and JURASSIC PARK) I would be astonished.

Quote from: "Dakota Smith"
Again, I'm in total agreement. Everyone is so thrilled at the last page of the book that they're ignoring all the horrific, gleefully nihilistic mayhem that occupied literally every other page of the book.


I find it depressing that, comparing this series to the original CRISIS (a pointless waste that was not the best series ever by ANY MEANS) it has the original CRISIS look like a sterling example of purpose and restraint.

Consider: there was a reason every single person died in the CRISIS; shortsighted, greed-influenced reasons certainly, but reasons nonetheless. Supergirl’s movie busted very badly, negating her future potential as a moneymaker (at least as seen by the DC chair jockeys, whose lack of vision rivals Mr. Magoo) and further, she didn’t fit the editorial direction her books were to go in under Wolfman and later, Byrne. The Flash’s book had been canceled at issue 350 and nobody had absolutely any plan for him. Wolfman put in a way that could easily bring Barry back if somebody wanted to do so that was perfectly natural, and the Silver Age Flash’s death, at least the way I read it, was pretty much just meant to give him a place to be until somebody thought of something for him to do.

Here in INFINITE CRISIS, they’re just killing off folks left and right just for the hell of it.

Quote from: "Gary"
On the other hand, the only way we'll really care is if we can be convinced that the hero stands a chance of losing. And that means that there have to be some stories where the heroes lose.


I completely agree, Gary. One reason that Morrison's JLA bugs me is because he was never able to achieve a sense of fear surrounding the challenges the JLA face; they were immortal, and when in battle, as assured of victory as the heavenly choirs of angels or the '72 Miami Dolphins. Didn't Morrison even establish it was a law of universe that the JLA automatically win every fight they get into? And even during Morrison's run, they pounded the everliving angel food cake out of the heavenly choirs. I'm fairly positive that if Morrison's run had lasted longer, he would have had the JLA go back in time and beat the '72 Dolphins at Superbowl VI.

Kurt Busiek's JLA, in just eight issues embarassingly enough, totally outshone everything Morrison did because he was able to so successfully immerse us in his story that while intellectually we knew the JLA was going to come out on top (it IS their name on the comic, after all) emotionally, the outcome was nail-bitingly in doubt.
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
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