superman.nuMary Immaculate of Lourdes NewtonHolliston School Committeefacebook    
  •   forum   •   COUNTDOWN TO MIRACLE MONDAY: "THE SPECIAL REPORT!" •   fortress   •  
Superman Through the Ages! Forum
News: Superman Through the Ages! now located at theAges.superman.nu
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 20, 2024, 10:07:23 PM


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What would YOU have done?  (Read 18499 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
alschroeder
Superman Emergency Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 82



WWW
« on: October 14, 2005, 04:32:49 PM »

Say, it's 1985, and you were given the opportunity to do what you want with Superman. What would you have done?

This is my own fantasy, feel free to do your own....

I would have kept the Silver Age Superman.  I would have accepted Kara's death, in CRISIS, and used it to give some depth to Superman, as Bucky's death (until recently) gave depth to Captain America. In fact, I would have slowly, over the course of a year started getting rid of other survivors of Krypton.

   You see---and I can't believe I'm saying this---to a certain extent, I think Byrne had a good idea, making Superman the lone survivor of Krypton. It's hard to feel it's a tragedy when literally millions survived.  I just hate the way he DID it.  Elliott Maggin wrote a good story about returning Kara's body to her parents, wring the heartstrings---we have a chance to get some depth to the character, and instead, Byrne makes him FORGET KARA EVER EXISTED?Huh?

   I think Moore's ending for Krypto was quite good. I think Krypto should have died defending Superman, and have us see a scene where Superman was crying over Krypto, his beloved childhood companion and pet. Have Krypto's death MEAN something.

    Then, have Superman check in the Phantom Zone---and be startled to see it depopulated. All the criminals cleared out....

    Find the dead body of Beppo, the super-monkey, in Africa, and wonder what could have killed Beppo....

    And then have him wait for the next time Rokyn/Kandor is supposed to enter our dimension---and have it not show up....

    That way Superman is left EFFECTIVELY the only Kryptonian, but with a  maddening mystery on his hands.  That way it doesn't negate the appearance of the Phantom Zone and Rokyn in the Legion, (we can assume that Rokyn and the Phantom Zoners have been captured/diverted, not really killed---but SUPERMAN won't know that, thanks to the post-hypnotic suggestion that leaves him largely ignorant of his future-knowledge)  but leaves him wondering who murdered Beppo, who's getting other Kryptonians---and when will they come for him?

   I would have moved in Lois and Superman's relationship, but not get them all the way to marriage. Have Superman discover, not his long-awaited way to give Lois full super-powers, but to make her at least as INVULNERABLE as he---which is all they need to protect her against his enemies, right?

     They think. So they get engaged....

     Only to have Brainiac show up, put Lois in one of those impenatrable force shields of his, and TAKE HER AWAY to another part of the cosmos. For us to occasional see the invulerable Lois, beating on the barrier, begging for Superman to come save her....

      But she could be anywhere in the universe....
   
      Good luck, Kal.  We'd see him trying to find Brainaic, but unwilling to leave Earth completely undefended, even for Lois....torn in two by duty and love...

      I'm also a fan of the Golden Age Superman and the lower power levels.  I liked what Denny O'Neil did in the "Sand-Superman" sequence trying to lower his power, but I hated it when Superman comlained he could ONLY leap tall buildings with a single bound---geez, I can't even leap ONE building.  (Unless it's an anthill.) So I'd have some enemy like the Parasite succeed in draining Superman of MOST of his powers, but  Superman breaking free soon enough to retain the 1938-level powers, and have about six months of adventures at THAT power level before his power builds back up....

       What about the rest of you? What would YOU have done?---Al
Logged

Al Schroeder III, former letterhack (met his wife through Julie Schwartz' lettercolumns) of MINDMISTRESS http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com---think the superhero genre is mined out? Think there are no new superhero ideas?

Think again.
Captain Kal
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 716



« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2005, 09:33:42 PM »

Quote from: "alschroeder"
You see---and I can't believe I'm saying this---to a certain extent, I think Byrne had a good idea, making Superman the lone survivor of Krypton. It's hard to feel it's a tragedy when literally millions survived.


Quick comment ...

Yeah, I heard one wag state it as it was getting to the point with Kryptonian survivors that it seemed the only ones who did die were Jor-El and Lara.  The seemingly endless stream of survivors and artifacts from Krypton was already beyond ridiculous.

But I'd do it similar to the E-2 Krypton where only two survivors actually made it instead of inventing ways to gradually knock off the existing ones.  It's a reboot so take advantage of it.

Yeah, and keep Superboy in Superman's past.
Logged

Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
Uncle Mxy
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 10:05:53 PM »

Sorting out Krypton's level of technology and space travel ability would be a good thing for sorting out this "Last Son of Krypton" mess:

If Kryptonians were sufficiently space-faring, why wouldn't they figure out that they have powers and abilities far beyond those of normal men once they leave Rao?  Why wouldn't there be a lot of survivors, even if they didn't figure out that they were superpowerful away from their solar system?  

If Kryptonians weren't terribly space-faring, why would they be so advanced technologically in other areas that would seem to be even more complex, like projecting people into other dimensions?  

What are Krypton's interactions with the other "big" races in the DC Universe?  Being superpowerful under a yellow sun, is there a reason that some other race like the might not have figured this out and used the Kryptonians as some kind of glorified power battery?  Or perhaps the other races know just how powerful they are away from Rao and have deliberately isolated them?  Perhaps the Guardians planted a "status quo" gene in them so they wouldn't be inclined to leave (with only the -El line being able to be really innovative)?  Don't assume an isolated Krypton.  Figure out why they're isolated.  

What's the deal with Daxam?  

When you address these questions, then you can figure out how to get to the amount of Kryptonians you want to have around and why.  Personally, I like "more than one or two" and "less than hundreds or millions".  How could you NOT have General Zod, especially after Stamp's performance in Superman II?
Logged
Super Monkey
Super
League of Supermen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3435



WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 10:06:28 PM »

I think that is a very narrow, seflish, and childish point of view, if you don't want to write stories with certain characters, just don't use them, there is no need to kill them off, just because you don't like them. Later on a new writer can come in and write great stories with characters that you didn't know what to do with. Why ruin it for everyone else?
Logged

"I loved Super-Monkey; always wanted to do something with him but it never happened."
- Elliot S! Maggin
Captain Kal
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 716



« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 10:17:40 PM »

I think what Al was getting at was the tragedy behind Krypton's destruction is cheapened and lessened if a plethora of survivors in ever-increasing numbers existed.  If only a few survived it underscores the tragedy and Superman's isolation which is one of his driving motivations.

Yeah, we could easily decide to ignore the other characters.  But that doesn't mean their effect on the tragedy can be ignored too.

On a related note, Byrne did make it possible for Krypton's destruction to be more tragic and meaningful ... only to negate that with his making Byrned Krypton a sterile dystopia seemingly worthy of being destroyed, and making Clark more a man of Earth in his motivations to becoming a super-hero and only learning of Krypton's fate many years after dawning the cape.  I swear, the Byrned One really doesn't get it ...
Logged

Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
Uncle Mxy
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 11:18:28 PM »

Quote
On a related note, Byrne did make it possible for Krypton's destruction to be more tragic and meaningful ... only to negate that with his making Byrned Krypton a sterile dystopia seemingly worthy of being destroyed, and making Clark more a man of Earth in his motivations to becoming a super-hero and only learning of Krypton's fate many years after dawning the cape.  I swear, the Byrned One really doesn't get it ...

Note that a very similar formula worked for the Superman movie, and the Golden Age Superman didn't find out about Krypton until he was an adult.  I don't think Superman has to know at birth that he's a Kryptonian orphan to feel like an outsider.  The powers and knowing he came from a mysterious rocketship will do that.
Logged
Kuuga
Last Son of Krypton
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 336



« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2005, 11:34:57 PM »

Just to throw in here for a bit (I'll post my ideas at a later time)..

If you were in a position where you didn't have to reboot then you could simply reduce the amount of appearences of the other Kryptonians and such. Sometimes cleaning up clutter doesn't meaning throwing things way as much as storing them neatly for later use.

Just taking Krypto as an example, you could do something akin to what they had going with Krypto in current comics where he guards the Fortress.

Or even better, take a cue from the Krypto cartoon by Paul Dini where he's basically staying with a boy from Earth who finds him and becomes his best freind.

All things about "realism" aside, I thought it was a rather elegant approach because it allowed Paul Dini to still use the Superman and Krypton created for STAS and Krypto is essentially the little white dog we see Kal-El playing with in the pilot move.

Only in the series, things are drawn obviously in a much cartoonier fashion and theres a different tone. I think it allows you to sort of take or leave Krypto at your leisure while having a doorway into Superman for the very,very young reader. Taht combined with the smartly woven origin for Kara In-Ze makes Superman still the last son of Krypton because after all, Krypto is a dog and Supergirl is from a neigboring world.

Then if and when you'd have an adventure with him in the Superman book he would be drawn a little less funny and we wouldn't be privy to his thoughts.  When the adventure is over, Krypto goes back to being Kevins dog again or fighting crime alongside Ace the Bathound.

Different books with different purposes with a mindful eye as to how things work when something is brought from one book and into another for the duration of the adventure.
Logged

CHO-HENSHIN! KAMEN RAIDA, KUUGA!
NotSuper
Action Ace
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 512



« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2005, 12:00:29 AM »

There's two ways I would approach this:

1: The first is to simply have things move forward after the Crisis. Supergirl will have died, but she would still have existed and be remembered for her sacrifice. The survivors of Kandor wouldn't have made Superman any less "special," especially since they were all located on Rokyn, which was in another dimension! I'd still use Krypto for the occassional strory, but I wouldn't use any of the other super-pets. I wouldn't kill them off or state that they never existed (that would be wrong), I just wouldn't use them. If some later writer wanted to he could write a story featuring them. I'd keep Brainiac in his cool cyber-organic form and feature him in many of Superman's stories, ditto for Mongul and Darkseid. I'd have Luthor "go straight" and form LexCorp (a Maggin invention)--I wouldn't have this go on as long as it did post-Crisis, though. It would last five years at the most and then scientist Lex would return.

As for the Phantom Zone criminals, I wouldn't have changed them much. They're a rich source of credible villains and gained great popularity after the Superman movies. Besides, it's just a cool idea. The Phantom Zone was such a creative idea and was far ahead of its time. It just makes sense that a society like Krypton would create such an effective way of dealing with hardened criminals, rather than just killing them.

As for the Earth-2 Superman and Earth-Prime Superboy, they'd still have adventures in their "paradise" world. There would be no fear of them crossing over to the mainstream DCU. Their adventures would be continued in their respective worlds, as if the Crisis never happened. This is my first approach, the second involves a reboot.

2: This approach is a full reboot. This would be different from DC's reboot in that there would not be pre-Crisis events that still happened in this continuity. Many would still remember them, however. Superman would, in fact, have dreams of the Pre-Crisis DCU, especially of Kara. This would be Alexander Luthor's gift to him. Barry Allen would still be the Flash and Wally West would be his sidekick, Kid Flash. Basically, things would start over from day one and heroes would actually age (slowly) in this reality.

As for the Earth-2 heroes, they would exist in the same paradise as the Earth-2 Superman. Their stories could still be told without any crossovers. The same is true for the Earth-Prime Superboy. The Legion would claim to be inspired by a "Superboy," but Kal will not have become Superboy in this continuity. But who would this Superboy be--the Legion doesn't know, as records from that time period are rare and often have contradictions. What is clear is that this Superboy DID exist, but where he came from is unknown. Eventually, I'd establish this Superboy as Kal's son (in a future that may or may not happen) and he would join the Legion (also a future that may or may not happen).

But what about Superman's origin? That's where there would be some big changes. Krypton would still be a utopia and all that, but the reason Superman has powers would be different. They would not come from Sol's energy or lighter gravity, but instead from Kryptonian evolution and genetic engineering (the fear that replaced radiation). Kryptonians would have evolved naturally to "leap tall buildings in a single bound" and have the other Golden Age Superman's powers. They would later improve these powers through genetic engineering. Krypton would still have a red dwarf star (called "Rao"), but their planet would be similar to our own in size and gravity. Once the Kryptonians started experimenting on themselves, the Guardians of the Universe "bonded" them to their planet, preventing them from leaving. They also gave the Daxamites their weakness to lead and the Martians their weakness to fire.

A word of the Daxamites, if I may. Daxam would be a sort of Counter-Krypton, hidden behind Rao. Their evolution would be similar to Krypton's, including their use of genetic engineering, only their powers would be inferior to Kryptonians. This is all unlikely, but not too unlikely if you consider the nature of Superman. As for Mon-El, Superman would never meet him in the present. Lar Gand would instead be a space explorer poisoned by lead and returning to Daxam. There he would be frozen until a cure could be found--it would be, one thousand years later by Brainiac 5.

Back to Krypton. The planet would adopt a very rational and altruistic state of mind. All decisions would be made by an elected council, of which Jor-El was a member. Jor-El discovered that Krypton's core was unstable after geological testing. Jor-El goes to the council with his findings, saying that he has discovered a way to remove the genetic bond between Kryptonians and their planet--unfortunately, it can only be accomplished by changing the genetic structure of unborn children (which Jor-El has done with his newborn son, Kal-El). Jor-El suggests having all pregnant women expecting to have their unborn children altered and then sent to other worlds. He suggests that the rest of Kryptonians place themselves in the Phantom Zone, which their children can rescue them from later. No one believes him, of course, and they even mock him. The story is the same from here, with Kal-El (and Kara Zor-El) being sent to Eartha (or Terra).

Kal-El is an infant when he's sent to Earth, and he spends almost two years in his spaceship. During this time, he is instructed by a program created by his father and mother. This teaches him morals and the history of his planet. Since he's still young, he only remembers his language, the names of his parents, his own name, and the name of his planet. Later, at age twelve, the ship downloads the full history of Krypton into his mind. Kal is found by the Kents and raised as Clark Kent. Shortly after he graduates high school, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart-attack. Kal soon builds the Fortress and alternates staying there and at college. He even equips the Fortress with Kryptonians artifacts stored in the Phantom Zone. When he turns twenty-five, he becomes Superman and joins the Daily Planet as Clark Kent.

As for villains, Lex Luthor is both a scientist and businessman. He practically made Metropolis "the city of tomorrow" with his inventions. He hates Superman because he is a threat to humanity's growth and is proof that Luthor isn't the greatest being on Earth. Brainiac is an android created by Vril Dox (and sees himself AS Dox) with a grudge against Earth for how they treated him when he crash-landed. He's now crazy and wants to control the universe "for its own good." Bizarro is a failed clone of Superman created by Lex. The creature is similar to Frankenstein's Monster. The Bizarro World will later re-appear, created by Mxyzptlk. Morgan Edge would still run Intergang, and the Toyman and Prankster would be members. Darkseid and Mongul would be the physical threats to Superman.

As for Clark Kent, he'd still be mild-mannered, shy, and unsure of himself. He wouldn't be a coward, however. Clark is non-confrontational. Lois would love Superman, while Lana would actually love Clark.

With Kandor, I have a very specific idea in mind. It would be populated not by Kryptonians or various aliens, but by the original sentient beings from Krypton--the Xan. The first Kandor was founded and inhabited by them, but during the war (no one knows how or who started it) with the Kryptonians, the city was banished into the Phantom Zone. This was caused by the Kryptonians and ended the war. Unfortunately, the Kryptonians never figured out a way to bring the city back or even view it. Superman encountered the city in a trip through the Zone, and even managed to be able to constantly view the city by linking it to a bottle similar to a bell-jar. He has sworn to restore the city, and has even given the Xan a reason to respect Kryptonians.

The only other surviving Kryptonian would be Kara Zor-El--Power Girl. Her ship would've taken a different route and she would've landed on Earth at about eighteen. She would adopt the Karen Starr identity and things would continue as normally. As for Krypto, he would still be here, but instead of a Kryptonian survivor, he'd be a super-powered canine created by Project Cadmus.

Whew. That's a lot to type. I actually have more ideas, but I'll leave it at that.
Logged

Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

CURRENT FORUM

Archives: OLD FORUM  -  DCMB  -  KAL-L
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Entrance ·  Origin ·  K-Metal ·  The Living Legend ·  About the Comics ·  Novels ·  Encyclopaedia ·  The Screen ·  Costumes ·  Read Comics Online ·  Trophy Room ·  Creators ·  ES!M ·  Fans ·  Multimedia ·  Community ·  Supply Depot ·  Gift Shop ·  Guest Book ·  Contact & Credits ·  Links ·  Coming Attractions ·  Free E-mail ·  Forum

Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
The LIVING LEGENDS of SUPERMAN! Adventures of Superman Volume 1!
Return to SUPERMAN THROUGH THE AGES!
The Complete Supply Depot for all your Superman needs!