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Poll
Question: Do you think Alex Ross is on his right career path???  (Voting closed: April 17, 2006, 04:10:45 AM)
Yes, he is great - 7 (58.3%)
Yes, he is okay - 2 (16.7%)
He is so so to me - 1 (8.3%)
No, he doesn't do it for me - 1 (8.3%)
No, absolutely not - 0 (0%)
Who is Alex Ross - 1 (8.3%)
Total Voters: 12

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Author Topic: Alex Ross Superman is turning into a Bodybuilder, and Batman  (Read 11345 times)
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2006, 02:44:05 PM »

Not so much Rockwell to me as striaght up American pin-up, from a number of illustrators...it does work in some spots...
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2006, 11:59:41 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"

I love "Mythology" as a sort of album collecting Ross' take on all the DC big guns, but it occurs to me this "album" approach is much more enjoyable, in the end, than any of Ross' "comics" (Peace on Earth, War on Crime, etc).  For me, the true geniuses of comics are guys like Eisner, Cole, Kirby, Sprang, Gil Kane, etc...guys who remained unpredictable and innovative throughout their careers and could always surprise you with new ways of telling a story, visually.  Ross, in contrast, does nice majestic poses but there is rarely that sense of energy, enthusiasm and giddy chaos I associate with true "comics" (as opposed to pretty, painted panels).


Well said.  Pretty stuff, but basically a series of majestic portraits, not comics.  Or if it is comics, it has more in common with the work of Hal Foster.  On the other hand, it is an imaginative (maybe too literal?) answer to the question, "What would it look like if you had to tell a story in pictures about god-like beings with impossible abilities who seem to get into a lot of fights with each other."  But I like Kirby's answers better (and for that matter, Steve Rude's).

As a picture book, Mythology looks fine --although there is a tendency towards ugliness and awkwardness in some of his figures and compositions.  Some of his ideas and variations on characters I love are charming and fun.  And I like his pencil sketches more too --Earth X, etc.  He is obviously someone who takes a craftsman's approach to his art and the success he has won guarantees that for the most part his art maintains the same level of quality no matter what project he is engaged in.  From what I've read, we share many of the same concerns about the treatment of classic characters and what is important about kids comics.  And the projects he has developed are attempts to stem a tide of crap that has continuously spewn out of Marvel and DC over the last 25 years --but it is a losing battle.  The most influence he has had has been in terms of art --Ross has inspired a host of painterly devotees who are not as motivated by the same respect for the icons of his childhood (or whose economic position does not allow them the same freedom and distance from crappy comics projects).

The older-looking characters (and I love those Doc Savage covers) give the characters a gravitas and experience that seems apt for what he is trying to do (although the premises of Earth X and Kingdom Come lent themselves to that look).  Ironically, portraying these characters as ancient probably has a negative effect on younger audiences in terms of reader identification and marketability.  

I've seen some sketches that suggest Ross has a cartoony ability that he should use more --he needs to loosen up!
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2006, 01:15:12 PM »

The strength of Ross'  approach is that most of us grew up wondering what superheroes would look like in real life and his paintings get us as close as we're likely to get.  But if you're going to ask, "what would this character look like in the real world" then you have to be ready when the answer is, "stupid."

Superman comes off fairly well, but for my money, Ross' Flash looks ridiculous, with that shiny suit and a seam right down the center of his cowl.  Hal Jordan, whose Gil Kane-designed costumed always seemed so classy to me, looks like a reject from a ballet company when drawn "realistically."  So many of these great, body-hugging outfits are revealed as goofy leotards when rendered by Ross.  Which isn't so much a criticism of his abilities as his outlook.  Sometimes the only thing separating "fun" from "stupid" is that well-crafted sense of UNreality, the ability of pencillers and inkers to take us up to the edge of reality but never over it.  Even Neal Adams, who pioneered "realism" in comics (and in retrospect opened a Pandora's Box) actually created a sort of alternate reality, a world where everything looked accurate and tangible, but just slightly better than real.  To me, comics offer something bigger, flashier and more exciting than reality and in the end, making superheroes "real," whether in story or art, is a comedown, a waste of potential.

Quote
The older-looking characters (and I love those Doc Savage covers) give the characters a gravitas and experience that seems apt for what he is trying to do (although the premises of Earth X and Kingdom Come lent themselves to that look). Ironically, portraying these characters as ancient probably has a negative effect on younger audiences in terms of reader identification and marketability.


I have a soft spot for those old Bama Doc covers, too, since they got me into Doc's world and by extension the world of pulps in general.  Like Ross, Bama worked with models, and if anyone ever looked like a real life superhero it was Doc model (and former Flash Gordon) Steve Holland.  But in retrospect, he really was too old to be the Doc in the stories (a "kid brother" to the Fantastic Five) and I have to wonder why Bama didn't just "leave out" a few facial crags and wrinkles.

KC Superman and Earth X Cap were fine with me, they were supposed to look older.  But "Peace on Earth" Superman should have looked a lot younger.  I'm as much a fan of "mature" heroes as anyone (to this day I think Chris Reeve looked too young for Superman, and Brandon Routh is a baby!), but there's a difference between grown-up and worn-out.

As far as posing, Ross' Supes isn't so bad, as a real-life Superman could afford to stand still and let the world throw things at him.  But his Batman looks too beefy to raise his leg high enough to climb into the Batmobile, let alone kick a bad guy in the head.
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2006, 07:18:27 AM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
The strength of Ross'  approach is that most of us grew up wondering what superheroes would look like in real life and his paintings get us as close as we're likely to get.  But if you're going to ask, "what would this character look like in the real world" then you have to be ready when the answer is, "stupid."


Ha! Yeah, those seams and leotards just look dumb in that style (maybe why he gave GL a suit of armor and Flash a helmet in Kingdom?).

I wonder, who do fans think of as the "great" 20th Century superhero painters?

Alex Schomburg?  Frazetta? Bill S?

I liked the Kirby prints I've seen.
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2006, 11:28:36 AM »

Saw the link, yes, very much so like a bodybuilder. Perhaps I prefer to see Superman like a gentleman with super power and can defeat big bullies without huge muscles or being bigger than them (don't like to see Superman pick on someone smaller than him, special he already has the super unfair advantage). Superheroies should be able to get into a "human" formal suit and still looking reasonably normal rather than giving everything away. The best Superman that I have seen is someone looking rock solid (not solid muscle or muscle mass but something else foreign to us), reasonably flexible but not overly, and rather importantly, has a face that is capable of more than one form of expression. I truly enjoy reading all your responses (nightwing in particular), and that put us in touch with what we enjoy seeing in various situations.

As for painters, I prefer it as real as possible. I personally own the original painting featured on the Batman Forever pinball translite (which has nothing to do with creativity really), which is very much different from Alex Ross non-realistic approach to facial expression and features (once again, a huge give away even if compare to the trademark square jaw look).
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