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Poll
Question: Is Superman, in fact, out of the Dark Ages?  (Voting closed: January 15, 2006, 06:19:13 AM)
Yes - 2 (20%)
No - 2 (20%)
Too soon to tell - 6 (60%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: Is Superman out of the Dark Ages?  (Read 12512 times)
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Permanus
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2006, 10:16:52 AM »

Quote from: "sikkbones"
was there ever an else worlds set in the middle ages with clarkie and/or brucie?

I seem to remember one in which he was Sir Clark of Kent, but I'll be goshdurned if I can remember what happened in it. He probably went to Camelot or something ("Nay, on second thought, let us not go to Camelot: 'tis a silly place").
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TELLE
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2006, 10:42:09 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Perhaps you didn't read that, TELLE.
We've got BUSIEK and GEOFF JOHNS getting on Superman.


Well, to be fair, I haven't been reading IC and don't plan on it --unless I am super-bored (one of my powers) some year and am stuck somewhere where old issues or a tattered trade paperback collection are lying around.  I am thinking about picking up that JSA issue with George Perez out of nostalgia and might read Morrison's Superman when the first arc is collected.  The only new DC product I've paid for over the last  year: New Frontier, Seaguy, Mike Allred Solo and I think that's it.  I leaf through other things on the rack but most of it is ugly and features characters I don't recognize or who don't appeal to my super-refined sensibilities (another power).

Kurt Busiek is a good writer and worth buying when paired with a good artist.  I wouldn't know a Geoff Johns script if in bit me in my super-refined sensibilities.  It sounds like he is a fan of the "classic" versions of Dc superheroes and thinks that a "sensitive" treatment of Ma Hunkel is in order (a debatable prop to me).  Maybe I'll read one of those stories if I can find one with tolerable art.

Maybe my opinion doesn't count because I can't get worked up over innovations in these corporate properties as much as I used to.  There is a cold lead shell around my super-soft mushy center (another power).  I love the classic Superman, most of which was published before I was born, because of the high level of craft, editorial consistency, and childish charm I find in those old stories from a (now) vanished past.  A Superman retread, even one helmed by my favourite artists and writers, would still only be an anomaly, doomed to be watered down and ultimately corrupted by succeeding teams.  I learned this when Paul Smith left X-Men and John Byrne left Fantastic Four, breaking my teenage heart.  darn you serial comics!  I gave you the best years of my life!

 :cry:
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nightwing
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2006, 01:39:18 PM »

I'm gonna have to echo Telle's sentiments on this one.

Ten years ago, I might have been excited to see a bit of Silver Age coolness creep back into the books, but by now I've been away from comics so long I don't think anything could bring me back.

For me, there's more wrong with the medium than the cynicism, cruelty and porn that pollute so many stories.  There's also the technical deficiencies: "art" by hacks who learned all they know from a "How to Draw Comics" book at Barnes and Noble.  Layouts featuring just two or three panels per page, or if you're lucky maybe six panels or two whole pages of panels that show the same moment in time from 20 different angles, advancing the story not one whit.  Plots that drag out for months or even years without coming to a satisfying conclusion.  "Dialog" that reads like the ramblings of a crack addict.  And lest we forget, an ever-shrinking page count with an ever-rising price tag.  

I miss more than Krypto and Beppo.  I miss plots that hold together and that I can follow, art that doesn't hurt my eyes, stories that are told -- in their entirety -- in a single issue, all in a package that's affordable.  Why should I spend 3 bucks for 20 pages of a story that doesn't even end when I can pay 15 bucks for 500 pages of classic comics in a "Showcase" edition?

I wish Kurt and Geoff all the luck in the world, and if what they do turns out good, I may buy it in trade form or at least check it out from my local library.  But modern comics just don't offer me a good return on my investment, and that's the bottom line.  I plan to build a library of Showcase volumes, and at one a month and 15 bucks a pop, that's my comic book budget right there.

As Telle says, good teams don't hang around indefinitely, and as Julian says (by way of Alan Moore), no age lasts forever.  Things are certainly looking up for Superman from a few years ago (when this site was the only bright spot for fans of the real deal), but the second DC perceives it can make more money with a return to Dark Age themes, it'll reverse course yet again.
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Genis Vell
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2006, 01:40:34 PM »

I like the post-Crisis Superman, so I don't consider the last 20 years a "dark age".
For me, dark ages are the moments when stories are bad... So, For me the post-Crisis era is not a bad period... It's a long period featuring also bad moments (the mid '90s, the Seagle run...).
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NotSuper
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2006, 07:36:08 PM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
Quote
Despite this, I don't believe we are at a new age yet. The period we're in right now seems like a "flux" (1948-1958) one. DC seems to be getting rid of the things that don't really work for the Superman character but still deciding on the ones to put back in.

In other words, we're witnessing the creation of a new age--we just don't know when it will be finally be completed. That's just my opinion, of course.


I was going to post pretty much the same thing, but I'll just be lazy and quote you instead Smiley

Nothing wrong with that. I've done it myself quite a few times.  Smiley
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Superman Forever
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2006, 02:50:16 AM »

I have to say it's too soon to tell. Mark Waid and Grant Morrison are my favorite writers, they're like the spiritual heirs to Maggin. Busiek is excelent but is more of a marvel guy than a DC Silver Age guy. Loved Secret Identity, tought. Johns is OK, but I don't like the way Earth-2 Superman is treated in Infinite Crisis. I loved his Star and STIPES but he can be very dark and gore too.

Anyway, they're only in the books for a limited story arc, as I understand it, right? We don't know ho will be their replacements.

Jeph Loeb was the writer of Return to Krypton, not Johns.

And there was lot of inspiring Superman stories of Jurgens (Metriopolis Mailbag), Stern (Homeless for the Holidays) and kelly (What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?).

I think it's more of a transition age, or at leats a mixed bag. Some bright and inspiring, some dark and gloomy. To each his own.
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2006, 03:54:05 AM »

Telle, you and I share some amazing powers - I also am super-bored.

And like Nightwing, Id rather spend my $ on Showcase editions.

Altho I did spring for some Plastic Man back issues and Super Boring (Wayne) art.

Lets see if A*S*S* keeps the ball going........
I wish Dawryn Cooke was doing Supes instead of the Spirit.

Whoops Super-ADD just kicked in...................whooooooooooooooosh!
AND AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
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Gangbuster
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2006, 05:20:29 AM »

I think that no matter what happens, it will always be a mixed bag with a fair amount of crap in it...but maybe not enough to set it on fire and put it on someone's doorstep.

There are positive signs- a new movie, Smallville is good this year, JLU is one of the best shows on television. Krypto has a show, and there are several good comics on the market. "It's Superman" is a bestselling novel, and the Adventures of Superman is a bestselling TV Show. Bottom line...Superman is popular again, and there are avenues to express your capitalist pig support for him.

There are also negatives:

-Superboy is still untouchable. 40 years of Superboy stories have not seen reprint. Where's my DVD release? The Adventures of Who?

-Lex Luthor. A lot of people on these boards prefer Lex to be the imaginary sort of evil, not real evil (i.e. Lex stabbing women to death with a survival knife in the early 90s) While Lex has been portrayed as a scientist in some stories, he's transitioned to a corrupt political boss in others (President Lex, It's Superman!, current Smallville eps.) It's still unclear whose vision will win out. Besides, Kevin Spacey's portrayal of the character may take him in neither of these directions.

- If there were a small measure of justice in the world, (the real) Alan Moore would be Superman editor, and Elliot S! Maggin would be writing a comic based on the Krypto show. (Whether we would want to live in a completely just universe is a different philosophical matter, but I must stop myself!) I think the selection of comics will continue to be partly good, partly crap. Just buy the best ones...money talks. Well, sometimes.
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