Superman Returns - Costume

[Phro]

I wonder why the 'red' in the suit is particularly darker than usual.

fro

[shazamtd]

What I'd like to see, is a costume that manages to captures almost 70 years of history, and still manages to be contemporary. That means something different to everyone.

Singer has said that this is what he was going for.

Anyway, before I ramble too much I'm attaching an image of what I think ought to be the colours in the film.

The colors are going to be more like the colors you have in your retouched pic.  The original picture wasn't the best example.  The newer pictures show this.

[King Krypton]

Furthermore, to suggest that most of the current fan-base are idiots, is idiotic. Not to mention ignorant and arrogant.

No, it's not. It's the unvarnished truth. The Superman fandom as its stands is unbelievably stupid, egotistical, and shortsighted. They're the ignorant ones, not me. Point out that Singer's costume is rooted in Superman's history, and they'll either deny that history and claim the costume is totally unrecognizable as Superman or insult the history as inferior. Cite Singer's design influences, and the fandom will condemn them as garbage because of their vintage or because they're not what was done in 1986-1999. Explain to them someof the practical reasons for the costume elements (the plain cape being easier to CGI than tryting to texture a map a yellow sheild distorted by multiplepleats and folds), and they'll scream about how the filmmakers are too "lazy" and "arrogant" to "follow tradition," and then extend that same insult to the cartoon animators who left the emblem off the cape, too. Siegel and Shuster are often dismissed as "getting Superman all wrong" in order to prop up Byrne as the true creator, but they've even been bashed with regards to their early work being used in part for the costume design. Max Fleischer's been insulted as a hack who had no idea how to do a cartoon character design. The fandom is dead-set against Superman's own history. They want an Iron Age Superman, full stop, and they'll tear apart anything that isn't it.

What I'd like to see, is a costume that manages to captures almost 70 years of history, and still manages to be contemporary. That means something different to everyone.

That's exactly what Singer did. He pulled the costume together from elements of all eras of Superman's history. And he's been skinned alive for it because the idiots who claim to be "fans" don't want Superman's history acknowledged. They point only to Byrne or Alex Ross and say that's the only way to depict the suit. And God help anyone who thinks differently, or who sees the value of Superman's pre-Byrne history and understands where Singer's coming from. It's even gotten to the point where these morons have claimed that the Abrams script where Krypton didn't explode and Lex was Kryptonian or even Burton's whacked-out goth take would be superior to Singer's offerings. If they can't have their Iron Age Superman, they'll embrace a total character assassination over something informed by all the character's history. And this is an opinion I should respect?

I used to think it was the Batman fandom that was the most clueless because of their mindless lemming mentality toward Frank Miller. Butr with this movie, I've come to realize that the Superman fandom is infinitely worse. They're not only deliberately and willfully ignorant and brainless, but they flaunt it like a badge of honor and demand that everyone else be the same way. No, their opinions should never be listened to. They'd sell this character out in a heartbeat, and put bluntly, they're traitors. Every single one. They have no right whatsoever to call thesmelves "fans," because they're too full of themselves to see Superman as more than just 1986-1999.

[nightwing]

Wow, King, a bit of a chip on that shoulder, eh?  :lol:

Well, you can take solace in this little fact:  Superman is much, much bigger than his modern comics fan base.  They can't live forever, and when they're gone, their vision of Superman will be forgotten, while the Superman of George Reeves, Christopher Reeve -- and of Jerry and Joe, Curt and Mort et al will live on.

Superman has fans from 5 to 85.  The older ones were not reading comics in the 80s and 90s and the younger ones are coming up in an age where DC is sweeping the 80s "reboot" into the dustbin.  Soon enough Iron Age Superman will live on only in the memories of those fans who were around from 1986-1999...statistically not anywhere near a big slice of Superman fandom.  

Eventually the comics of the 80s and 90s will be seen as a minor blip in Superman's history, featuring some oddball experiments that went in crazy directions but had no lasting effect on the mythos.  Vintage tales gave us idyllic Krypton, the Daily Planet, Lois, Jimmy and Perry, Kryptonite, Kandor, Krypto, Supergirl and so on.  Those things persist and always will, despite all efforts to erase them.  The 80s and 90s gave us businessman Lex, dystopian Krypton, Electric Superman, long-hair Superman, etc...those things are already gone and the 99% of the Earth's population who don't read comics never even knew they were there.  In the grand scheme, those elements of the mythos with merit will last and those elements without merit will fade away.  That's been true in any period of Superman's history.

Most of the world knows Superman through movies, TV shows, cartoons and radio anyway and that's likely to continue.  Singer has the good sense to know this.  He knows he's making a movie for the whole world, not for a statistically insignificant cohort of obsessive comics fans in their 20s and 30s.  Even if every one of them boycotts this film (which they will NOT), it won't hurt the box office one iota.

As to whether they're "idiotic," who can say.  Different strokes for different folks, and if they like the 80s and 90s Superman, that's their choice.  But if they really imagine they have the power to dictate to Warner Brothers how a multi-million dollar film should be made, then yes, they're idiots.

[Criadoman]

Well - heck, so much fun happening here, why not dive in?

For the record, I think Routh is the most superhero looking Superman yet.  Now, I loved Chris in the role, but up until Routh, Cain was the most muscular Superman (although Kirk didn't do too bad himself).  Chris was a little too skinny for my tastes (until Superman 4 - but that's like... I dunno what.)

I guess they did muscle-pad the suit a bit, but Routh apparently bulked into it where they had to remove the pads because he looked too big.  (Keep you're puns to yourself!)

Chris certainly had the face - but I think Routh has the overall package.

As far as the suit is concerned, I've seen so many versions, I really don't care.  I am quite happy they dropped the "S" on the cape, however.  That was a design element that really never worked for me.  He doesn't need it.  I like a long, and heavy cape on Superman, versus a mini cape.  If you're gonna wear one, make it big - not a towel on your back.  No one is ever gonna mistake who you are when you're swooping down and all they see is a red cape.

The shield, I've always been a fan of a big one.  I think Byrne's and Ross' are the biggest to date.  I think George's was about the same size as Routh's.  So - this will have to grow on me.

The boots are the most clever element yet in any Superman costume.  Finally, something that looks like it has a reason to be scalloped at top.

The belt, again, it needs to grow on me.  The fact is that if there is an "S" on the front, what's the point of another one?

I guess the silkscreen on the costume is lots of little blue shields to give it texture.

Also, I like the darker colors.  There is something more modern about those.

So - I've got lots of faith in what Singer did.  He did alright by X-Men, and kick started the superhero franchise game again.  This time he's doing it with the godfather of superhero movies' blessing - Rich Donner.  And, he made Warner give our boy Supes some more respect and even quite likely bought Smallville another season (which like it or not, it is still Superman and gets people interested).

It's all good.