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Author Topic: Brighter Days Ahead for Batman?  (Read 15164 times)
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nightwing
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2006, 05:04:59 PM »

Then again, with a name like Luke he was bound to end up kissing his sister.

Of course his sister should've been named Luanne.
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2006, 05:14:27 PM »

I liked the surprise that Darth was Luke's father (or at least he -said- he was), but Darth being Leia's father as well just never did it for me.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2006, 02:44:29 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
I don't care what anyone says, making Vader Luke's father was the single dumbest plot twist in modern cinema.  Not only was the pay-off not worth it, but it ruined what, in the first film, had been the greatest movie villain since Goldfinger...or maybe King Kong. In 1977, Vader could give you chill bumps and have you yelling "Boo, Hiss" with glee.  Now you look at the same film and think, "Poor, lost Annakin."  BLLEHHH!

And without that little brainstorm we also wouldn't have had the execrable episodes I-III.  God save us from prequels.


Agreed. Some villains work because they are able to create sympathy: e.g. Frankenstein, King Kong. Other villains work, though, because they are able to create absolute terror, because they are pure evil: e.g. Dracula, Hannibal Lecter.

Both types of villains were on display in the Mantlo/Englehart/Isabella run of SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM UP which placed the former type (Namor, the Sub-Mariner) with the latter (Doctor Doom).

However, if Leigh Brackett had lived, it is likely that this plot twist would have been carried in such a way that it was honest to Vader's cinematic evil. Why? Because in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, Vader tells Luke he is his son...and then chops his hand off and leaves him for dead. Now, with a scene like that, you get a sense that Vader has many things on his mind, but redemption isn't one of them.

For the record, Episode III could have been totally redeemed if they had done something like this in the last scene:

    VADER: "Where is the Queen?"
    EMPEROR: "I'm afraid you killed her."
    VADER: "Good." [/list]

    As for the plot twist that Luke is Leia's brother...well, "left field" doesn't even begin to describe where this detail came from. Not the least of which because they had romantic tension. But also because...Leia was in a room with Vader for hours and hours in the first picture when he tortured her for information. Wouldn't he be able to TELL she was his kid?

    What it was, was a lazy way out of what was potentially one of movies' most interesting love triangles.

    (I don't know who Leia would have picked, but Luke was kind of a punk. Give me the rugged, five-o-clock shadowed Harrison Ford anyday.)
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    ShinDangaioh
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    « Reply #11 on: January 23, 2006, 03:48:23 PM »

    George Lucas is a revisionist  hack.

    Leia was 16 and Luke 18.  Anakin Skywalker  and Darth Vader were two seperate beings.

    When Star Wars first came out, there was a set of trading cards with offical data on the characters in the movie.   The age difference between Luke and Leia was one of the things I can recall, as is the seperation of Vader and Anakin.  

    This is as bad as Batman never found out who killed his parents, Superman was never Superboy, Vision is nothing more than a toaster, and so on.

    IMPO the only true official continuation of Star Wars was the infamous Holiday Special.
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    Klar Ken T5477
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    « Reply #12 on: January 23, 2006, 06:27:40 PM »

    Absolute agreement here. And for those fans who prefer Empire cause its darked theres only one true SW - and thats SW77. They even got medals, The End.

    Not to mention uncedited swipes from ERB, Flash Gordon, etc, etc.
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    Great Rao
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    « Reply #13 on: January 24, 2006, 07:53:24 PM »

    Quote from: "ShinDangaioh"
    IMPO the only true official continuation of Star Wars was the infamous Holiday Special.

    I would add Alan Dean Foster's original SW sequel novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye to your list.  It was the first SW sequel, before Vader was Anakin and before Lucas had a big budget.  It was also by the same author as the SW novel.

    S!
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    "The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
    ShinDangaioh
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    « Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 08:12:00 PM »

    I forgot about that novel.  Yes, it is also a sequel to the original spirit of Star Wars.

    We're off track.  Batman's brightest days are not in the comics, but in the cartoons.  I have yet to see The Batman, but I'm quite sure it isn't going into Vertigo territory.
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    JulianPerez
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    « Reply #15 on: January 24, 2006, 10:08:03 PM »

    Quote from: "Klar Ken T5477"
    Absolute agreement here. And for those fans who prefer Empire cause its darked theres only one true SW - and thats SW77. They even got medals, The End.


    Aww, c'mon. EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was fortified with 90% more Han Solo, and that can't be a bad thing. Harrison Ford is one of those actors that have a real gift for comedy, that because of typecasting they never had an opportunity to demonstrate.

    I blame A VIEW TO A KILL for delaying Christopher Walken's ultimate career as the greatest comedy genius since Bill Murray.

    Now that Richard Chamberlain is older and no longer has to play "hearthrob" parts, it would be interesting to see him do some comedy. Like Billy Zane in TITANIC, he was the only one in KING SOLOMON'S MINES that "got" just how cheesy the movie was, and had a grand old time. He was grinning and goofing off all the time on screen almost assuredly because he was having loads of fun making the movie.

    (Although darn Carrie Fischer to hell for what she did to Paul Simon. I love the original STAR WARS, but I love Paul Simon more.)

    Quote from: "Klar Ken T5477"
    Not to mention uncedited swipes from ERB, Flash Gordon, etc, etc.


    Yeah, darn EMPIRE STRIKES BACK for ruining what had up until then been one of the most original science fiction franchises ever.  :lol:
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