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Author Topic: A Sermon Supreme #3: Know your enemy, but do not become him!  (Read 8346 times)
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Gangbuster
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« on: January 30, 2006, 11:14:17 PM »

[warning: contains opinions that may not be your own]

Background:

I'm 23 years old, with a Superman hobby. I enjoy reading Silver Age reprints, and I've recently subscribed to All-Star Superman. I have a room full of Superman novels, posters, and figures. I've enjoyed the Adventures of Superman and the Animated Series, collected on DVD. Every week I gather around with old friends and watch Smallville, (but never Lois and Clark) and in my leftover spare time I've worked on Supermanica. Up until now, I've really enjoyed Superman Through the Ages, and support the site when I can.

Nietzche, who accidentally created "Superman" thanks to some bad English translators, once said "Battle not with monsters, lest you should become a monster."  There is a monster growing on this site, a sort of "Super-Fundamentalism," which has the potential to drive younger Superman fans away.  Here's what I mean:

When John Byrne took over the Superman titles, I was four years old. I had no knowledge of this, continued to watch Superfriends, then Superboy, and later read Superboy comics. (My first comic was Superboy #2, based on the TV show.) My perception of Superman really wasn't changed very much between age four and age five. On the other hand, there are people on the forum who were already adults at that time, who felt that DC had robbed them of their childhoods.

I agree with those who think that the Man of Steel miniseries was not true to Superman, (now that I've read it in my adult life) and that the restrictions placed on Superman at that time were too rigid and stifled creativity. I think that Last Son of Krypton was an infinitely better Superman origin than that series will ever be.  But then I have to deal with the "SuperFundamentalism"....some Superman fans on this forum are every bit as rigid as the DC editorial staff of 1985.  As far as they're concerned, the last Superman story was in 1986, and they'll never try anything new. If that's your prerogative, so be it. But PLEASE stop ruining the fun for everyone else!

I respect Superman's history...a lot. However, I want to be able to talk about an episode of the Animated Series (that happened AFTER 1986) without shame.  If I mention the new issue of All-Star Superman, I don't want to be greeted with "Humbug! New comics suck!" when you haven't actually read a new comic since I've been born. If I spot the Indian Caves from "I Can't Go Home Again" in Smallville, I'd like to be able to point it out without the philosophy of Smallville's evilness being spouted in my face. And though I don't like all of it, I've been reading Infinite Crisis! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

It is both honorable and necessary to respect Superman's history. It is important that Superman maintains the moral sense that makes him Superman. But it is also important to realize that some aspects of Superman's history, and some of his important moral decisions, are being made now.
Superfundamentalism, Super-censorship, and Super-whining about new things have got to go.  Many of the people who are still angry at the DC of the late 80s have become the DC of the late 80s. Stop it.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 11:47:59 PM »

I'm trying to sort out the points you are making...one may be the elimination of "Smallville" conversation...the other would be having a dim view of modern comics and expressing it, sometimes without having read the comic but commenting on another's summary of what's in the comic...I don't think the second issue is any more than strong preferences by members of the site...

But maybe I'm missing something...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 12:00:08 AM »

Quote
If I mention the new issue of All-Star Superman, I don't want to be greeted with "Humbug! New comics suck!" when you haven't actually read a new comic since I've been born.


Both I and the Great Rao and nearly everyone on this site are big fans of All-Star Superman, and have said so countless times, it even has it's own board, so are you sure you got the right website?  :?
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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 12:08:54 AM »

A valid point.

There are a few characters that some of us here enjoy that are part of the post-Crisis Superman family

Top of the list is
John Henry Irons aka Steel

I have not seen in disparging comments about the character Steel(well, maybe the movie version of him)

Another character is Linda Danvers Supergirl(PAD"S Supergirl,  Angelgirl, etc.)

I'm not really a Superman fan.  I've always perferred reading about the 2nd tier characters.  I perfered Supergirl over Superman.  Why?  2nd tiers have growth and change compared to the static icons.  the Supergirl fans, such as myself are still hurting over THE LIE

The only complaint I've ever head or seen about Superman the Animated Series is that DC refused to give it as much attention as The Batman Animated Series.

In Justice League, Superman was suffering from the Worf effect.

As to John Byrne, the more I've read about his retconning and wall-building, the more I dislike his writing.  The Metal Men are not plastic.
His comment about Jessica Alba was out of line and the way he took a pot shot at Christopher Reeve right after he died was disgusting.  

As to the modern day comics, I was really hoping they would write the wedding of Guy Gardner and Tora
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 12:10:47 AM »

and another thing...

Quote
I respect Superman's history...a lot. However, I want to be able to talk about an episode of the Animated Series (that happened AFTER 1986) without shame.


What shame? That has it's own board as well! Yet again, most people here are FANS of it, where are you getting this from?

Quote
As far as they're concerned, the last Superman story was in 1986, and they'll never try anything new. If that's your prerogative, so be it. But PLEASE stop ruining the fun for everyone else!


Yeah, I better stop promoting the upcoming Post IC Superman run then like a madman then,... :roll:

http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2194
http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2227
http://superman.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2295

I don't know where you are getting this from, so you better stop  generalizing and start naming names.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 12:12:28 AM »

I didn't like the Bronze Age and I write about it sometimes...

People just ignore me... :lol:
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Gangbuster
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 12:25:03 AM »

Quote from: "Super Monkey"
Quote
If I mention the new issue of All-Star Superman, I don't want to be greeted with "Humbug! New comics suck!" when you haven't actually read a new comic since I've been born.


Both I and the Great Rao and nearly everyone on this site are big fans of All-Star Superman, and have said so countless times, it even has it's own board, so are you sure you got the right website?  :?


I do not recall stating anywhere that the official position of Superman Through the Ages was anti- A.S.S, or that forums for subjects that I'm interested in, like All-Star Superman, did not exist. If I accidentally implied that, I'm sorry. My point is that there are millions of Superman fans who don't read the comics, who have no idea who John Byrne is. There is bitterness and negativity toward new things among a few in the forum, which has the potential to drive away new people.
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 12:55:00 AM »

I am trying to think here, OK so there is that one guy who hates everything, and only post here to complain about things that may or may not have actually happen on some other boards. Then there is MatterEaterLad, who thinks that the 1970's were too modern for his taste, but he is a lovable old chap and besides most people just skip over his posts anyway. He is still refers to movies "moving pictures" and "talkies" for pete's sake and thinks that Kirk Alyn was the only true Superman actor in his eyes, so cut him some slack.  Tongue
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"I loved Super-Monkey; always wanted to do something with him but it never happened."
- Elliot S! Maggin
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