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Author Topic: Violence and Continuity  (Read 15484 times)
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lonewolf23k
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2006, 04:17:52 AM »

What I really dislike about the violence in DC comics today is that they're just getting rid of third-tier characters they don't want to use in stories..

...Now, I can respect not wanting to use a character.  I can even respect "writing them off" for that purpose.  But graphically killing them off in such a matter that their death is anything but questionned is just robbing future authors of valuable resources..

...Because now, there's no way in Hell a future Teen Titans writer can even write another story with Red Star, Pantha and Wildebeest.  Now, there's no way in Hell the bat-writers can even use Spoiler and Batgirl in a story, unless it's in the afterlife.   ...And seeing as how Ted Kord had his brains shot out, he's never going to be written about ever again.

...At least Soap Operas, when they kill off characters, leave themselves a bit of wiggle-room for bringing them back if they want to.   DC basically cut off every wiggle-room they had except for necromantic magic, and even that seems doubtful now.
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dto
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2006, 07:05:16 AM »

Quote from: "lonewolf23k"
What I really dislike about the violence in DC comics today is that they're just getting rid of third-tier characters they don't want to use in stories..

...Now, I can respect not wanting to use a character.  I can even respect "writing them off" for that purpose.  But graphically killing them off in such a matter that their death is anything but questionned is just robbing future authors of valuable resources..

...Because now, there's no way in Hell a future Teen Titans writer can even write another story with Red Star, Pantha and Wildebeest.  Now, there's no way in Hell the bat-writers can even use Spoiler and Batgirl in a story, unless it's in the afterlife.   ...And seeing as how Ted Kord had his brains shot out, he's never going to be written about ever again.

...At least Soap Operas, when they kill off characters, leave themselves a bit of wiggle-room for bringing them back if they want to.   DC basically cut off every wiggle-room they had except for necromantic magic, and even that seems doubtful now.


Well, at least one could always write a fan-fiction set BEFORE Infinite Crisis, shoehorning the story between a particular character's appearances.  Red Star, Pantha and Wildebeest have PLENTY of "unfilled space" since they were last seen for fan-fiction writers to elaborate upon.  And you can always squeeze in a short Spoiler/Batgirl adventure that wasn't recorded in the Bat-titles.

But then there are characters so thoroughly poisoned that I can't read about them again.  Sadly, Superboy-Prime tops my personal list.  I always liked Prime and thought he had such POSITIVE potential if released from the Paradise Dimension, but now I can't even look at DC Comics Presents #87 anymore.   :cry:   Perhaps his downfall is explanable given his background and particular circumstances, but I was VERY upset at what DC did to him.  

(Sigh)  At least I still have "Superman: Secret Identity"...
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Gary
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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2006, 02:47:03 PM »

C'mon, if a writer wants to use a character, he'll use that character, regardless of whether the last writer killed that character off. How many of comics characters who die end up actually staying dead? Generally only ones like Bucky Barnes whom nobody would want to bring back.
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nightwing
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« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2006, 03:23:17 PM »

Quote
How many of comics characters who die end up actually staying dead? Generally only ones like Bucky Barnes whom nobody would want to bring back.



Ummm...I'm guessing you're not collecting Marvels lately, huh?  Smiley
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Gary
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 05:34:01 PM »

No, I'm not, and if they actually brought him back, I'm very glad that I'm not. Smiley
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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2006, 09:47:43 PM »

Quote from: "lonewolf23k"
What I really dislike about the violence in DC comics today is that they're just getting rid of third-tier characters they don't want to use in stories..

...Now, I can respect not wanting to use a character.  I can even respect "writing them off" for that purpose.  But graphically killing them off in such a matter that their death is anything but questionned is just robbing future authors of valuable resources..

...Because now, there's no way in Hell a future Teen Titans writer can even write another story with Red Star, Pantha and Wildebeest.  Now, there's no way in Hell the bat-writers can even use Spoiler and Batgirl in a story, unless it's in the afterlife.   ...And seeing as how Ted Kord had his brains shot out, he's never going to be written about ever again.

...At least Soap Operas, when they kill off characters, leave themselves a bit of wiggle-room for bringing them back if they want to.   DC basically cut off every wiggle-room they had except for necromantic magic, and even that seems doubtful now.


Standard DC tactic.  Take a look at the hurdeles they had to go through to get a Kara Zor-El Supergirl back into the DCU:

Supergirl was killed off in Crisis and her body buried

DC said that Kara had never existed.

Byrne went out of his way to make sure there was no way for another Kryptonian to show up.

Byrne introduced the Protoplasam Supergirl

(I'm not counting what Peter David did with Supergirl.  If it wasn't for DC sabatoging his efforts with event cross-overs and 'use theese characters' mandates, that series would still be going on)

I'm quite certain that the only reason we have a Kara Zor-El back is because of the Supergirl from the animated series of Superman and Justice League.

Quote
How many of comics characters who die end up actually staying dead?
Generally only ones like Bucky Barnes whom nobody would want to bring back.

Ice(Tora) is the one that springs to mind readily.  She was well liked and it was considered a waste to kill her off.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2006, 03:48:48 PM »

Quote from: "lonewolf23k"
What I really dislike about the violence in DC comics today is that they're just getting rid of third-tier characters they don't want to use in stories..

...Now, I can respect not wanting to use a character.  I can even respect "writing them off" for that purpose.  But graphically killing them off in such a matter that their death is anything but questionned is just robbing future authors of valuable resources..

...Because now, there's no way in Hell a future Teen Titans writer can even write another story with Red Star, Pantha and Wildebeest.  Now, there's no way in Hell the bat-writers can even use Spoiler and Batgirl in a story, unless it's in the afterlife.   ...And seeing as how Ted Kord had his brains shot out, he's never going to be written about ever again.

...At least Soap Operas, when they kill off characters, leave themselves a bit of wiggle-room for bringing them back if they want to.   DC basically cut off every wiggle-room they had except for necromantic magic, and even that seems doubtful now.


One of the greatest strengths of characters that are less famous as others, is that it is possible to alter them graphically because nobody has an investment in them. Because they're seldom shown, they don't live their lives "on camera," and so consequently it's possible to demonstrate any development in their lives that the writer wants. Steve Englehart fundamentally altered the characterization of Deadshot - we didn't see what Floyd Lawton was doing all that time in prison, for example. Ditto for Gail Simone with Catman in VILLAINS UNITED, who gave him his buff bod and a new, more intriguing personality. Busiek looks to be giving the same treatment for Killer Shark in his AQUAMAN (how the hell is that pronounced anyway, Byu-zick? Boo-zee-eck? Byu-zee-check?)

The same is true of killing off characters that are redundant or have not demonstrated utility, that do nothing but clog up a cosmos. Recently, leafing through a friend's copy of the DC Comics Encyclopedia, you can be overwhelmed by just how many lousy characters circulate in the DC Universe, derivative of other, better creations, annoying teen villain groups, and foes of Young Justice. It's not wrong for a writer to kill off a few; seriously, what are the odds that anyone will ever see the Acolyte again, for example? He wanted to restore the Dark God Kali, a gimmick much better realized by Kobra. Furthermore, his look was a cheesy theft of every single "demon" enemy of the 1990s following in the wake of Marv Wolfman's Satanis.

For every great character that remains unappreciated or has yet to find a writer to reveal them to full potential (Woodgod, N'Kantu the Living Mummy, Steve Gerber's Poison, Argent) there are characters like the DNAngels and Inertia that chew up precious panel time, that lack a niche or "hook" to make them interesting.

I can especially agree with deaths that are set around teams with large rosters. Geoff Johns was absolutely right to kill off these minor league Titans, I think. Every time someone like Kurt Busiek or Mark Waid tells a story now that features "every Titan that ever was" they would have to include the space-taking Pantha and the others, chewing up panel time.

To those that point out the rather aggrivating lengths that DC took to put stones over Kara's grave, as proof death is not an effective deterrent...the death of Kara Zor-El is hardly equivalent to Pantha. For one thing, Supergirl is a character that a lot of people really like and her absence is sorely felt; the decision to remove her from the DC Universe was a poor one and not really well thought out; her return was an inevitability, because (like with Hawkeye or Hal Jordan) they shouldn't really have killed her off in the first place. Pantha, however, does not receive this kind of goodwill. I highly doubt ANY of the "replacement" or "resurrection" problems mentioned will take place after THAT death.

This may be a rather mean thing to type, but, you know...I'm GLAD they're bumping off so much of the Giffen Justice League. The Giffen League was a rock that it took nearly a decade for the League to crawl from below. Not only was it not funny, not only did it feature a less than mythic league roster, not only did it plant arguably the first seeds of Bat-Dickery, worst of all, it had characters behave grossly out of character to get cheap laughs.

(Though if anybody kills off Woodgod, they'll be hell to pay from Mrs. Perez's boy Julian, and that's a promise!  Cheesy  )
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Kurt Busiek
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2006, 05:45:31 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Busiek looks to be giving the same treatment for Killer Shark in his AQUAMAN


King Shark.  Killer Shark is someone else.

Quote
(how the hell is that pronounced anyway, Byu-zick? Boo-zee-eck? Byu-zee-check?)


BYOO-sik.  Rhymes with "You sick."

kdb
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