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Author Topic: Violence and Continuity  (Read 15701 times)
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Kurt Busiek
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2006, 10:19:22 PM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Why is it nobody but me and Al Shroeder III have noticed that Roy Harper and Jim Harper have the same last name, and wondered if they were related?


Others must have noticed -- Jim Harper had a brother named Will, a forest ranger who died in an avalanche.  Roy Harper is Will's son.  Pre-Crisis, at least.

This is why Mal Duncan was able to (briefly) become a new version of the Guardian; he found the original Guardian's costume in Roy's locker at Titans HQ.

All of this was spelled out in SUPERMAN FAMILY #191-194, in which the Newsboy Legion contacts Jimmy to find the missing Guardian, and they go looking for Mal Duncan, since he'd been recently appearing in the Guardian costume.  The trail leads them to Speedy, and from there to the Evil Factory, where they fight a passel of Olsen Clones and rescue the Guardian and Dubbilex.

The story was written by Tom deFalco, but edited by E. Nelson Bridwell, who was likely the one who wanted to address those particular loose ends.

The roots of the connection began in the mid-Seventies revival of TEEN TITANS, in which Mal became the Guardian, but I don't know whether Jim and Roy Harper's relationship was spelled out there.  If it was, though, it may have been editor Joe Orlando or writers Paul Levitz and Bob Rozakis who came up with it.

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TELLE
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2006, 09:03:32 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
It makes the world more real if Iron Man and Black Panther can consult each other about the Vibranium Plague - even if this event is confined to the Black Panther's book.


It also helps to sell more comics.  Although readers may not exactly be excited by something called a Vibranium Plague, they just might be excited to learn that the super-cool Black Panther has his own comic book!  Inter-title continuity was something that Stan Lee and later Roy the Boy practically pioneered.  In many ways, worldbuilding makes for company building.  Only when continuity begins to feed on itself and fan-writers become obsessed with chasing down every "what if.." and obscure corner of the universe does it translate into a decline in sales, it seems to me.

Quote from: "Kurt Busiek"
All of this was spelled out in SUPERMAN FAMILY #191-194


I love it!

Are those 70s Titans comics underrated?  I have dim memories of them from my childhood.  It seems that quite a bit of their content has found its way into current continuity in various media.
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2006, 10:51:44 AM »

I think the pre-Crisis  Roy Harper and the Guardian connection was retconned out of continuity, and Jay Faerber wrote the new version in a Superboy/Tirans crossover back when he was in charge of the tittle (he was writer of The Titans, but it was published in Superboy). Maybe I'm confusing things, bacause I've not have readed the issues, just about them. So do anyone here know anytihing about the Faerber story?
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Kurt Busiek
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2006, 06:14:02 PM »

Quote from: "TELLE"
Are those 70s Titans comics underrated?  I have dim memories of them from my childhood.  It seems that quite a bit of their content has found its way into current continuity in various media.


I think they're rated about right.  They're functional but forgettable superhero comics, and the reason threads from them get picked up is because Titans became a huge hit under other creators, and its history was then enthusiastically farmed for anything usable.

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JulianPerez
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2006, 08:38:52 PM »

Quote from: "TELLE"
It also helps to sell more comics. Although readers may not exactly be excited by something called a Vibranium Plague, they just might be excited to learn that the super-cool Black Panther has his own comic book! Inter-title continuity was something that Stan Lee and later Roy the Boy practically pioneered. In many ways, worldbuilding makes for company building. Only when continuity begins to feed on itself and fan-writers become obsessed with chasing down every "what if.." and obscure corner of the universe does it translate into a decline in sales, it seems to me.


The capacity for cross-promotion is one of the benefits of this approach, but it is a beneficial side-effect and not the motive.

And my problem is, if ANYTHING, writers are more reluctant than ever to explore strange or disused corners of the Marvel or DC Universes, no doubt because of the very shallow knowledge of many writers about the books that they're writing.

Almost nobody has made mention in recent times of the fact that (for instance), Hawkeye wears a hearing aid because biting down on a sonic arrow made him partially deaf. Something this important can't go for YEARS without being mentioned.

Contrast that with all the use that was made with Simon Williams Wonder Man through the years, from his brain recording, return in the Legion of the Unliving, the Grim Reaper, and ultimately his resurrection under Gerry Conway? All this from a guy that BARELY showed up in a single early issue of the Avengers, where it should be noted, he DIED.

When was the last time the DC Universe, for instance, made use of...of all people, an A-lister like Amazo? Tom Peyer's HOURMAN, and a single issue in the Morrison JLA.

(Someone that reads more comics than I do may chime in to correct me here, but my point still stands. Someone like Amazo ought to at least show up once every two years.)
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 01:21:52 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"

The capacity for cross-promotion is one of the benefits of this approach, but it is a beneficial side-effect and not the motive.

And my problem is, if ANYTHING, writers are more reluctant than ever to explore strange or disused corners of the Marvel or DC Universes, no doubt because of the very shallow knowledge of many writers about the books that they're writing.

Almost nobody has made mention in recent times of the fact that (for instance), Hawkeye wears a hearing aid


I think that when Stan first started his continuity annotations, and cross-overs in general, getting readers for other books was at the top of his list.  Ditto for the early JSA and later World's Finest.

I can see a very good story built around Hawkeye and his hearing aid (didn't know he had one, btw) --this is a great strength of melodrama and long serial narratives.  Character history and character development are important, especially if you want to sustain a readership, but character-based writing is different in my mind from what I was criticizing.  My point about continuity obsessed writers, or at least their predominance since the 70s, is that patching the holes in the multiverse becomes the story, instead of being a fantastic background to the story.  The job of continuity should rest mostly with strong editors and the writers should be free to deal with plot and character.

As much as I may love something like E Nelson Bridwell's filling in the gaps created by Kirby's Olsen run and the 70s Teen Titans, you have to admit that it means nothing to the general or even regular reader.

Boy, this thread is all over the place! Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2006, 03:45:31 AM »

Gross violation of continuity is not a great way to go, a worse way to go  to my mind is slavish emphasis of it...
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celacanto
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 11:18:51 AM »

Quote
Almost nobody has made mention in recent times of the fact that (for instance), Hawkeye wears a hearing aid because biting down on a sonic arrow made him partially deaf. Something this important can't go for YEARS without being mentioned.


I remeber some reference to this in one number of hawkeye in solo avengers (he was fighting Angar the screamer), anyway. When he returned with the other heroes from Franklin Richards pocket world (Those terrific Jim lee numbers:lol: ) he was healed of his hearing deficiences. :lol:
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