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Author Topic: Who remembers the multiverse as it was?  (Read 13030 times)
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JulianPerez
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« on: February 19, 2006, 08:52:03 AM »

Obviously we know Psycho-Pirate remembers the DC Universe as it was, as does Power Girl now, and the Earth-2 Superman. However, who else may remember the pre-Crisis DC Universe?

THE WIZARD SHAZAM

It was hinted in the eighties POWER OF SHAZAM! miniseries that Shazam remembers the original Marvel Family when he gave the Earth-0 Billy Batson Marvel Powers.


RAVEN

Consider: Raven was not a participant in the original Crisis as a result of developments that were taking place in TITANS; even the Monitor and Anti-Monitor did not know where she was. Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that since they would not know where Raven was, they had no devices or machines to affect the perception of time from where Raven was when the multiverse restarted into a universe. When Raven returned in her white outfit, however, she showed nothing to indicate that she does remember anything of the multiverse.


THE PHANTOM STRANGER

The Phantom Stranger, like Guinan from Star Trek, is always sensitive to possible futures and the "rightness" and "wrongness" of timelines. For instance, in JLA/AVENGERS, it was he that showed the Leaguers and Avengers how their future would go if they stopped the plans of Krona. In Alan Brennert's "To Kill a Legend," the Phantom Stranger guided Batman to another Earth where the 20 year cycle of Batman losing his family began anew. And to be perfectly honest, the Stranger is so weird that it's really hard to tell what he does and does not know.

Incidentally, I recently reread the SECRET ORIGINS issue of the Phantom Stranger, which true to form, gave the Stranger four different origins: one by Levitz, one by Alan Moore, and another by Mike Barr. While I'm usually a big fan of Alan Moore, I hope that his origin is not the correct one: it had the Phantom Stranger be an angel who sided with neither God or the Devil. Angels and Devils and whatnot are WAY too trendy now, and having the Stranger sign on that bandwagon would be tragic.
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DBN
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 05:35:57 PM »

Definites

The New Gods
The Time Trapper
Donna Troy
Linda Danvers
The Fatalist
The Guardians

Possibles

Hal Jordan
Superman
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dto
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2006, 06:13:16 PM »

During Zero Hour it was revealed that The Linear Men knew about the Multiverse and the Crisis, probably since Vanishing Point is outside the timestream.

In Peter David's last "Supergirl' arc ("Many Happy Returns"), we see that the Spectre, Linda Danvers and the Fatalist all had SOME knowledge about the Pre-Crisis Multiverse.  Whether the Spectre or former host Hal Jordan still recall is unknown.  (I'm assuming the Spectre's new human host does NOT know.)

It's questionable whether Animal Man recalls what happened during the Grant Morrison run when he met Psycho-Pirate.  If so, then J'onn J'onzz also knows.

Did Harbinger REALLY remember?  Her "History of the DC Universe" that was sent into space (and later recovered by the Manhunters) was the POST-Crisis combined Earth chronology.  But apparently her orb now contains information about the Multiverse.  Perhaps Alexander Luthor somehow hacked into it after Harbinger's death?  And is Harbinger TRULY dead since she could split into multiple selves?

From his recent JSA appearance (where he mentions Huntress being "RETCONNED out of existance" -- that HAS to be Helena Wayne), it's likely Per Degaton knows about the Multiverse, or at least past timelines that once involved a Multiverse.

One wonders if the Titans of Myth recalled the old Multiverse, judging from "The Return of Donna Troy" miniseries.
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2006, 06:35:58 PM »

When I was 21 there were many worlds
but when I was 22 there was only one!


Definitely Frank Sinatra DID remember but not any more. Wink
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 09:10:01 PM »

Darkseid created the Post-Crisis Parasite as a result of memories of the Pre-Crisis Parasite, which means it is very likely that the New Gods (at least those that reside in the Fourth World) remember the multiverse as it was.

One less obvious example was Dr. Ub'x, the chipmunk villain who achieved ultimate power (okay, YOU try and type that without laughing). Steve Englehart had Ub'x achieve ultimate power at the moment the Crisis took place, and consequently he was outside the cosmos when the Crisis happened and remembers everything.

Question: why would Hal Jordan remember the Pre-Crisis multiverse? Was it because he was the Spectre for a little while?
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 11:57:43 PM »

Quote
Question: why would Hal Jordan remember the Pre-Crisis multiverse? Was it because he was the Spectre for a little while?


Yes, and during his time as Spectre he knew full well the fate that awaited the MHR Kara in her home reality. Also, he may have gained some knowledge of the multiverse during his time as Parallex (not too keen on that since I haven't read Zero Hour in years and no longer have the issues). It is unknown if Hal still possess these memories since his split with the Spectre. That's why I put him down as possible.

The current Superman should have some knowledge of the multiverse due to the letter that Linda Danvers sent him along with the visions he recieved during the Absolute Power arc in Superman/Batman.
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ShinDangaioh
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2006, 06:55:49 AM »

Mordru, Emy, Amber,  and Amehtyst are highly porbables due to Gemworld being outside the temporal reboot effects.  Heck, Amethsyt had her own personal histroy rewritten after COIE(she wasn't supposed to exist and Emy was the natrual born daughter of the Winstons), but she retained her memories of how it was supposed to be.  She did restore Emy's memories of how things used to be.  Gemworld's history says Emy is Princess Emerald and Amy was the one to be raised by the Winstons.  Something is up with those involved with Gemworld
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nightwing
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 09:01:08 PM »

My take on Zero Hour was that Hal/Parallax remembered the Multiverse and wanted to restore it.  To be honest, I don't think this was stated outright, just implied...I suppose you could take the same dialog another way, but it sure sounded to me like he wanted to bring back the old days.

I remember it, because it was one of the few times I was actually rooting for the "villain." :-)

At the time, I considered it possible/likely that *all* heroes present at that "Dawn of Time" battle remembered the Multiverse (in fact I think someone in DC editorial SAID they did), but now it seems unlikely.

To be honest, there's no reason anyone in the DCU should remember the pre-Crisis Multiverse, considering most characters are re-booted on a bi-monthly basis and it's all they can do to remember last week, let alone 20 years ago. I'd care a lot more about continuity and who knew what when if DC gave a hoot themselves.  If nothing else comes out of IC, I hope when it's over DC has a system in place where their left hand will at last know what their right hand is doing.

But I doubt it.
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