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Author Topic: Who remembers the multiverse as it was?  (Read 13033 times)
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2006, 12:50:04 AM »

Their dog ate it
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DBN
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2006, 06:27:08 AM »

A couple of others to add to the list:

Dominus (villian during the Superman: King of the World storyline)

Kismet (general cosmic entity and used to be Sharon Vance/Strange Visitor)
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Great Rao
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2006, 06:33:11 AM »

Quote from: "DBN"
A couple of others to add to the list:

Dominus (villian during the Superman: King of the World storyline)

Kismet (general cosmic entity and used to be Sharon Vance/Strange Visitor)

How can post-Crisis characters remember the pre-Crisis multiverse if they were never around for it?

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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
DBN
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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2006, 07:18:24 PM »

The same reason the Spectre and the Guardians do, they are cosmic beings.

Dominus was the villian who altered reality during Superman Forever (setting Supes in the Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age) and the later Superman issues that led up to the King of the World arc.

You've got a couple of the stories from this arc uploaded on the main site.
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Maximara
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« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2006, 11:42:13 PM »

Quote from: "Bill 9000"
I do ... and I hope they get it right with Infinite Crisis, because, in my opinion, Crisis on Infinite Earths caused more problems than it solved.


Actually it was the lack of any real plan or editoral control after crisis that caused the problems.

Quote from: "Bill 9000"
For example, there was absolutely no logical reason whatsoever to eliminate Superboy from the Superman mythos (I don't care what John Byrne or any of these other so-called "professionals" say). Axing Superboy from the Man of Steel's history did nothing to "bring Superman back to his roots", and caused untold chaos for the Legion of Super-Heroes ... which still persists to this day ... 20 years layer.


Well the Legion by that time was already a continuity nightmare.  You just ignored it.  If the writers of legion had rebooted along with the 'new' reality  things woudl ahe been fine.  But the Cosmic Boy min series forced everybody's hand and things basicly went haywire form there as the Legion kept rebooting itself until End of era.


Quote from: "Bill 9000"
Another example is the history of Hawkman. What the hell went on there? Everything was perfectly fine until Crisis came along and after that everything seemed to go ka-blooie! Hawkman's entire continuity got messed up almost beyond recognition, and every attempt made to fix the problem only made it worse. If the original Hawkman had to die, then we should've been left with the Silver Age Hawkman (Katar Hol of Thanagar) and been done with it.


Actually everything was fine Post-Crisis until Hawkworld showed up.  This series took everything done with the Hawkman character Post-Crisis and threw it out the window.

Quote from: "Bill 9000"
Hal Jordan. Poor Hal ... here's a magnificent hero, beloved by millions, who got the shaft as if he were some crummy second-string wannabe. Although his downfall didn't really have anything directly to do with the Crisis, it was the result of bone-headed Post-Crisis writing for the sole purpose of making a buck ... much like Crisis was. At least Barry Allen and Kara Zor-El were given deaths that befitted their heroic nature. Hal Jordan was turned into one of the worst villains imaginable ... and for what reason? So they could make an inept attempt at repairing the damage that John Byrne and company did to the Legion of Super-Heroes by deleting Superboy from their history.


Actually the LSH had already fixed that by replacing Superboy with Valor but then some idiot hack killed Valor off and LSH history promply went pearshaped again.  Also by this time the continuity in every book was SNAFU City.  Zero Hour didn't do anything as LSH continuity is still FUBARed and talking about Sueprman these days give you more headaches than Hawkman every did.
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DoctorZero
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2006, 03:52:14 PM »

Hawkworld did mess up the Silver Age Hawkman.  They could have used the same explanation they ended up using, that the Golden Age Hawkman was visited by Katar Hall's father and helped with the invention of Nth Metal.  He was inspired by Carte Hall's Hawkman role and then created the Hawk Police on Thanagar.  But they had to completely wipe out the Silver Age Hawkman and ended up creating a hugh problem.

The Legion could have worked post Byrne if they had included Supergirl and all the Silver Age concepts into the pocket Universe.  In other words, say that the pocket Universe was what the Legion had experience with.  But they had to kill off Superboy and then ignore all the Supergirl appearances.  DC at it's worst, trying to explain something but leaving the job half done.  The pocket Universe could have been a great way of preserving all the Silver Age Superman/Supergirl/Jimmy Olsen stuff but they fell on their faces.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2006, 06:25:18 PM »

Or...

I guess, DC could have had the courage of their so-called convictions and stuck to a melded universe where some characters never have new origins or exist at all...that could mean years of building a new mythos, ignoring something they already had because of a 50 year history...I find it ironic that pocket universes, hypertime, and backward and forward flowing timelines are much more difficult to understand than the so-called insanely confusing multiple universes...

I liked the guts it took to do Crisis, but it seems that DC wanted all the spectacle and sales -- and none of the hard post-Crisis work...
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jimmyolsen8
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2006, 09:41:31 AM »

Quote from: "MatterEaterLad"
I liked the guts it took to do Crisis, but it seems that DC wanted all the spectacle and sales -- and none of the hard post-Crisis work...[/quote


Mostly.  As you say, Crisis took guts.  It was huge.  The continuity had run wild an unchecked for generations.  The Crisis was a great attempt at streamlining and while the $$ were sure to be part of it, there were some real fans making that happen.  

They did some good post-crisis work - Relaunching Superman and Wonder Woman was exciting and worth it (though everyone should agree on the Superboy error).   And Barry's death was great and continues to be treated with respect.    Kid Flash taking on the Mantle and struggling with it was a great series.

But they did drop the ball in lots of areas (Supergirl, Legion...)

Then someone saw the $$$ and all the other huge disasters came to rape and pillage the DCU - An almost annual event.  And beloved heroes got abused - Lantern, G.Arrow, Batgirl, Robin...

That was the beautiful promise of Infinite Crisis - that the wrongs would be righted, that we'd get at least Earth 2 back, that they would make it a universe we care about - instead of one where they abuse our treasured heroes...  But it doesn't look like it's going to live up to the promise.

If I wanted anxiety, betrayal, death and nastiness I'd read XMEN.
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