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Author Topic: Infinite Crisis #7 Why?!  (Read 19369 times)
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Gangbuster
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« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2006, 10:48:30 PM »

Having read all of the issues of Infinite Crisis, plus the miniseries that came before it, without having to spend any of my own money or keep them in my house, MY opinion is the BEST opinion!

Now, since that debate has been settled, Infinite Crisis 1 and 2 were good. The rest of the issues were like eating crap...but on a stick! Good did come out of it, though, because I was inspired to purge every post-Crisis Superman thing from my house. It's like the Inquisition in here! Just today I made 125 dollars by selling my Smallville DVDs to a soldier. I'm going to make a killing :twisted: on Amazon.com, and less than 2 months before my wedding too!

That said, along with the fact that I actually miss Hypertime now, I am more optimistic about Superman comics than I have been in a long time. I still won't buy them unless Clark Kent was once Superboy, but still...

1. Kurt Busiek hangs out on this forum, and we are the gods of written language. Therefore, it follows logically that Kurt Busiek is a good writer.

2. Richard Donner made Tales from the Crypt, and his name is going to be on Action Comics. What word does 'Crypt' resemble? That's right, Krypton.

3. In All-Star Superman, we see that Superman's housekey is really heavy again. That means there will be a bloody war in the arctic for ages, until someone can pick up the key again and become king! Sweet!

So as you have come to discover, my opinion being the best one, the whole Infinite Crisis experience was  like taking perfectly good food, putting it through organic chemical processes, putting it on a stick, and then eating it. But for Superman comics, at least, I think there's hope for the future.

Except that the past still didn't happen, and the present is pretty unclear. If I were the Ghost of Christmas Future, I would be feeling pretty lucky right now.
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2006, 10:55:19 PM »

But does it taste like lizard on a stick? :wink:
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2006, 11:33:30 PM »

LOL...

I imagine it tastes like the gopher in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"...

Nevertheless, I proudly stand behind my conviction that its crap without having read it... :lol:

The Paradice Dimension was a nice little dimension for Superman 2 and Lois to go as an honor to their DC history...sure Superboy Prime was a device invented during Crisis to fill a noble role in trying to stop the end of countless universes...

Taking these characters and making one a standard criminal who wants to re-make reality based on his own selfish desires is pretty much standard comic book fare...

Having him bludgeon Kal-L with bloody fists while screaming out his angst is hardly a universe altering paragon of an epic...

In fact its actually a small story, hikacking big characters, with a lot of gore...

Kal and Lois's faces in the sky are essentially nothing different than their fate during the Crisis, for all this "epic"...
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2006, 11:34:17 AM »

Quote from: "Nightwing"
I hope it was worth the whopping $3.99 price tag to "earn" the right to that opinion.


Yeah, it's piracy how they jack the prices up. But that's nothing. I pay $10 for a movie ticket and I STILL have to stand in line. What I don't get is why popcorn costs so much. You know that stuff is almost free? And I will never understand how a disk made of plastic like a DVD suddenly explodes to $24.99. with video, I suppose it MIGHT be worth that much; after all, there are a lot of little parts and wheels and springs inside of a videocassette - but these glorified coasters?

The one thing I regret most about the switch to magazine paper isn't the increased cost. It's the fact that if you didn't like a story, you could always tear out pages and use the creamy, smooth pulp paper to wipe your backside (which is why I don't have very many Gerry Conway issues left). The Nuclear War surviving, nigh-indestructible paper used in comics now, though, probably will stick around in your septic tank for the next 10,000 years, to say nothing of the pain on sensitive skin.

When it comes to this particular comic, I don't feel screwed over, because Geoff Johns has a way of making me feel like I get my money's worth. It isn't just because we've got Wonder Woman losing her killer instinct and Batman cracking a smile and trusting his friends. No; it's all about little things, like the whole cute little bit with the Invisible Airplane, which may be the only time that idea, which is rather goofy, was made to be the neatest thing ever. Plus, a fight scene on MOGO ITSELF. I mean, that's getting some more mileage out of a great idea there (and, Mogo gets dialogue!).

As for your critique about violence...you are correct that Johns has a thing for EC-style ghoulishness - Johns's tenure on FLASH coincided with Grodd suddenly developing a taste for human flesh. While I love Johns, I have no intention of defending this. Many otherwise sharp writers have one eyesore of a flaw: with Roy Thomas, it's his inability to characterize female characters. Chris Claremont has the exact same problem. For Geoff Johns, it's his tendency to go for New York Post type blood and guts sensationalism.

Every person has an individual tolerance for what amount of violence they find offensive. It's not a question of age; many adults can't watch THE GODFATHER, while many kids love late-night zombie movies. And SOMEBODY had to have read all those EC comics involving wives that eat their murdered husbands so there isn't any evidence.

Also, here's the thing about violence: the human mind is a very, very sick thing. We hear something described (like for instance, in a spoiler post), and we tend to make it a million times more embellished and grewsome in our heads than it actually is shown to be on paper. When I saw the actual Freedom Fighters death, compared to how I pictured it from the spoilers, it came off as downright mild. And it was; nearly every severe blow was implied, the next panel turns somewhere else and all we get is the very chilling sound effect. No internal organs, no excessive gore...in one pair of panels, Bizarro hits a guy, but we don't even SEE the blow connecting - all we see is next panel that there's blood on Bizarro's chalky hand. if this was a movie, I doubt it would even make it to PG-13. As for the Alex Luthor/Joker encounter at the end of #7...oh come on. The Nazis' heads melting at the end of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK was much worse than this.
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nightwing
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« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2006, 02:01:11 PM »

Gangbuster Thorul writes:

Quote
The rest of the issues were like eating crap...but on a stick!


So is that *worse*, because you might chip your tooth on the stick?  Or *better*, because you don't get any crap on your fingers?  I'm lost.

Julian Perez writes:

Quote
Yeah, it's piracy how they jack the prices up. But that's nothing. I pay $10 for a movie ticket and I STILL have to stand in line.


Standing in line is nothing.  Watching 10-20 minutes of freaking COMMERCIALS after paying 10 dollars to escape TV is an outright kick in the nads.  

Quote
The one thing I regret most about the switch to magazine paper isn't the increased cost. It's the fact that if you didn't like a story, you could always tear out pages and use the creamy, smooth pulp paper to wipe your backside (which is why I don't have very many Gerry Conway issues left). The Nuclear War surviving, nigh-indestructible paper used in comics now, though, probably will stick around in your septic tank for the next 10,000 years, to say nothing of the pain on sensitive skin.


It certainly is funny that the great classic comics of yesteryear were printed on cheap pulp paper for 10 cents a book, while the junk of today is preserved forever on high-gloss, archival quality paper.  Just like it's funny that a thieving moron like Todd McFarlane could get rich on comics while geniuses like Wayne Boring and Bill Finger died in poverty and obscurity.  In other words, the unfunny kind of "funny."

Quote
Many otherwise sharp writers have one eyesore of a flaw: with Roy Thomas, it's his inability to characterize female characters. Chris Claremont has the exact same problem.


The problem with Roy and Chris, I think, is that they'll never say in five words what they could say in 500.  I still remember reading Chris' X-Men, where a character could get punched in the face and deliver a four-paragraph soliloquy before hitting the pavement.  And I agree he did a lousy job writing female characters, which was doubly annoying as he seemed obsessed with them (apparently he thought he was great at it).

Quote
Every person has an individual tolerance for what amount of violence they find offensive. It's not a question of age; many adults can't watch THE GODFATHER, while many kids love late-night zombie movies. And SOMEBODY had to have read all those EC comics involving wives that eat their murdered husbands so there isn't any evidence.


A lot of it's context.  I liked some of that old EC stuff, but the violence served the suspense...the real chills were usually psychological in nature.  In contrast, superhero books are childish fantasies and extreme gore has no place in them, any more than genitalia belongs on the Teletubbies.

I find I could handle violence in films if it was handled with style and ability, but that was in the days before DVDs and home video.  Then the violence was fleeting, whereas now we can pause on it all day, and it's the repetition that wears me down.  Likewise, I find I can handle the occasional flash of blood and guts on the TV news, but I stay away from glossy pictorial spreads of the same images in TIME and Newsweek.  Somehow it's the relative permanence of those images that offends me.  

Quote
Also, here's the thing about violence: the human mind is a very, very sick thing. We hear something described (like for instance, in a spoiler post), and we tend to make it a million times more embellished and grewsome in our heads than it actually is shown to be on paper.


That may be the case in your example, but I have seen all over the Web the panels where Black Adam shoves Psycho Pirates eyeballs through his skull, SBP rips the arm off some also-ran and Pantha's head goes flying off her shoulders like a cannonball.  Subtlety was not the strongsuit of this series.  Granted that may not be the fault of Johns but of the artist, but the reverse is true too: how do you know it wasn't the artist's idea to draw in those obscure Lanterns rather than Johns'?

Glad Bizarro's murderous act was off-panel, but just the fact that Bizarro kills tells me this isn't the book for me.  And anyway how embarassing would it be to be killed by freaking Bizarro?!
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Gangbuster
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« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2006, 03:28:01 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Gangbuster Thorul writes:

Quote
The rest of the issues were like eating crap...but on a stick!


So is that *worse*, because you might chip your tooth on the stick?  Or *better*, because you don't get any crap on your fingers?  I'm lost.


Yes, you are.

The point with Infinite Crisis is that, while it was crap, it was served nicely. It was printed on high-quality paper. If you thought the cover looked bad, you could buy an entirely different cover! If you wanted to see Pariah get stabbed in the gut, or see Psycho Pirate get his eyes smooshed out of the back of his head, you could. If you thought that Kal-L was returning to set things right, and then he didn't, you could pretend that Crisis on Infinite Earths never happened and move back to Earth-One. (That's what I did.)

If I were a mean, nasty terrorist, I would theoretically travel to Earth-Prime just to go to DC Comics and declare a jihad on it!
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2006, 03:47:28 PM »

Actually, I thought the spoiler posts just made me not a fan of the story, it was seeing the panels on the web that me shake my head...
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2006, 04:17:15 PM »

Quote from: "nightwing"

Quote
Also, here's the thing about violence: the human mind is a very, very sick thing. We hear something described (like for instance, in a spoiler post), and we tend to make it a million times more embellished and grewsome in our heads than it actually is shown to be on paper.


That may be the case in your example, but I have seen all over the Web the panels where Black Adam shoves Psycho Pirates eyeballs through his skull, SBP rips the arm off some also-ran and Pantha's head goes flying off her shoulders like a cannonball.  Subtlety was not the strongsuit of this series.  Granted that may not be the fault of Johns but of the artist, but the reverse is true too: how do you know it wasn't the artist's idea to draw in those obscure Lanterns rather than Johns'?

Glad Bizarro's murderous act was off-panel, but just the fact that Bizarro kills tells me this isn't the book for me.  And anyway how embarassing would it be to be killed by freaking Bizarro?!



If history is anyway way of juding these things, unless you are reading a Alan Moore book, it is nearly always the artist's idea to sneak in little easter eggs for fans to catch.

Also, it seems that JulianPerez have not been clicking on links like the rest of us, since most of the important pages have been scaned and post on-line since issue 1.

So, we have all seen every single death and the few good spots here and there.

Like when Alex said...

"There are recorded rumors of Superman's activities before his appearance in Metropolis" - IC No. 7

So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss our opinions. There is no need for us to try and justify spending 27.93 (3.99 x 7) on that thing, I mean with that money I could have gotten about THREE Showcase books from Amazon and help charities and this site in the process.
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