Categories

[Great Rao]

Since both the Future and Historical Figures categories were created by DrJohnnyDiablo, he's the one who's toes would be stepped on.  I don't have a preference either way, but it might make sense to at least find out what he was trying to accomplish, and make sure that he's not adding entries to the categories at the same time you guys are removing them...

[MatterEaterLad]

Thanks...I guess I just get confused about how much of that kind of editing ought to be done on an open database...if someone changes a lot of entries at once, it makes a big difference....I didn't want to step on DrJohnnyDiablo's toes, and I don't want to be out of line, but I was wondering if new categories ought to be discussed in this forum first?  I don't know...

I also don't know how "finished" these databases ought to be before they get close to being done...if there are 5,000 entries one day, it would take a while to change the categories on a lot of entries...

But I could be wrong, I don't know...the weird thing about organization is everyone has a different idea about how to do it.

[TELLE]

On questionable categories:

I would echo Super Monkey on this --for me, a canon-specific category, like "Legion of Super-Heroes", seems more appropriate than a more vague and harder-to-define category like "The Future".   If anything, "The Future" would make an excellent entry under the category "Theoretical Concepts".  

On the other hand, The Future category seems superfluous at first, but maybe it would be useful to have a way to categorize every entry from Superman's future.  A handy answer to the question, "How many Superman stories take place in Superman's future?"  or "How many involve time travel?" Maybe "Time-Travel" or "The Far Future" or "Post-Superman" would be a better, more specific category.  A Century-specific category would be too specific and prone to being outdated.

As for historical figures, my initial feeling is to confine the category to people familiar to us readers as being from our own Earth's history, ancient to contemporary (ie, GW Bush, Curt Swan).  Although maybe a more accurate definition of the category would read, "humans from the time before Superman's birth" --which would eliminate all the then-current Presidents Superman has met, as well as the various celebrities (Ali, Einstein --what category would they go into if the book was being written when they were in the news).  A tough call.  Maybe it depends on how we envision the wiki being used: Do we organize it from our point of view or Superman's?  

The other thing we have to remember is one of the strictures laid down in the original Great Superman Book, where it is noted (Hail Fleisher!) that the articles and (hence, I would argue) the categories are written as if Superman is a real living person and his adventures really took place.  Therefore, it is not our future or past but Superman's that we are writing about.

On merciless editing:

These open-text wiki things breed thick skins among the users but it is a tribute to the community here that we are discussing this.  I would encourage pre-discussion of massive re-categorization but I am also mindful of the pleasant surprise I get when I see a new category that in hindsight was clearly needed.  I also know the fun to be had in creating new categories when the inspiration strikes.  I see it as a fun gift to my fellow editors and readers to add something overnight that changes the way readers can use the resource.  Of copurse, sometimes these things benefit from sober second thought(s).

Dr Johnny?

[DrJohnnyDiablo]

Hi, folks.

I know that the two categories that I just added might seem superfluous, but I really felt that it was "important" (or at least interesting) to group together Time-Travel-related characters.

I have approached these categories from the POV of Supes or Kara, Lois or Jimmy-whoever the feature character of the story was.

I admit that "The Future" is not a great name for the category ("The Far Future" sounds better), but there are a lot of interesting non-LSH future characters in the Chronicles.

As for the "Historical Figures", in the Chronicles wouldn't Erok-El and other ancient Kryptonians (in fact, all fictional historical characters regardless of their status in real life) be considered historical figures?

World War II-era characters such as Sgt. Rock present a dilemma because Fleisher says that Superman debuted in 1938 and would therefore be a contemporary. For the moment, I have left the WWII characters out of this category.

I guess more discussion is in order, to reach a concensus.

I will hold off working on these categories for the time being.

[Super Monkey]

another reason why I don't like the name:



http://superman.nu/tales4/futuremen/

[MatterEaterLad]

Following up on why I don't think past. present, future categories work...

Example 1:

The Kents are dead in many stories, they are chronicled in stories, but are they historical figures?

Example 2:

Kristin Wells comes from the 29th century to be the hero in the 20th century that she came from the future to investigate and that story is chronicled as part of the past

Example 3:

Superboy traveled to the 30th century to have adventures but to him and as far as the chronicles, they happened 40 years ago, and if that's Earth 1, these adventures happened to Superboy in anywhere from the 1940s to the 1950s in Earth 1 "time"...

These kind of paradoxes are cool and make comics fun, but they are hard to put in a "category"...and then you add in the fact that Supermanica ends in 1986 "real time" and it just gets confusing...

[TELLE]

More specific categories, like The Far Future or The Distant Past/Pre-Superman might clear some of that up.

Part of the Kristin Wells stories always make reference to The Far Future.

Historical Figures is still tougher, to me.  The temptation is to say Real World Persons but, as we all know, Superman's adventures take place in the real world.

[Super Monkey]

if it's that vague, perhaps it shouldn't be a category.

The futuremen were from the year 2000.

The TGSB was written from the viewpoint of the present day, we should stick with that viewpoint.

More specific categories, like The Far Future or The Distant Past/Pre-Superman might clear some of that up.

We should try to make the Supermanica as user friendly as possible. adding lost of more categories is not going to do that.

Why, didn't he just make a Time-Travel category?

for NON-Legion future and distant past folks that Superman has meet time-traveling or who have meet Superman time traveling themselves.

The Legion folks already have their own category, so this one should be only for non legion characters.

We should make that clear and supply a link to the Legion category in the category description main page. We can have something like: For the Legion of Super-heroes, please see legion.... as a link.

include this entry http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Time_Travel

and now you have something useful.

That makes a lot more sense to me, what do you all think?