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Author Topic: SUPERMAN RETURNS **SPOILERS** review thread  (Read 37493 times)
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Great Rao
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« on: June 28, 2006, 03:37:59 PM »

If you have seen the movie and/or don't mind MASSIVE SPOILERS, this is the place to post your reviews and comments; and/or read to those of others.

I've seen the movie and have many thoughts about it (both plus and minus), but I'm going to have to catch up on sleep before I hope to be able to post anything...

S!
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2006, 04:24:38 PM »

Im with you and need to catch up on sleep before I really let fly but in short it was a very very mixed experience ultimately leaving me with a bad taste in my mind.

When I saw Superman the Movie on opening day, first show I left the theatre --well-- high - there's no other wonder to describe the exhilartion of seeing my Superman - the silver age Supes - so brillaintly depicted.  Not to say that there were flaws but there were and they were many.  But ultimately forgivable as a motion picture it delivered the goods.

Superman Returns for all its Christ like ballyhoo is a big bloated disapointment.  A times it was like watching a zombie movie because it was like a undead beach party - some great Super FX sequences bogged down by an unwieldly plot, inane logic and a slavish retread of the original.  By the time I saw the ninth visual cue from Donners 78 or another line of dialog resaid, I was cringing.

In one interview, Singer was cited as saying he never read Superman comics growing up or comics in general -- and it showed. Of course, another interview contradicted that -- that he was the biggest fan ever.

So what are you left with -- some great Super action (but not nearly enough), a selfish Superman who's ultimately an ALIEN DEAD BEAT DAD (if the Munchkin really is his son - ambiquity and confusion reigns here), a subplot that would've been minor in any other film becomes this films emotional core -- Richard White and the kid are absolutely uneccessaryto the story.  Luthor's plan is illogical and illconcieved - it seems only as an excuse to reuse the 'land' shtick from S1 and Jon Peter's inisitence on the death/resurrection of Superman. Oh did I mention the uneccessary kryptonite shiv and sadistic beating of Superman?  Maybe Superman fighting three polar bears or a giant mechanical spider would've been better!

Routh channeling Reeve is OK but even Dean Cain and Tom Welling added their own interpertations to the mythos.  Bosworth is pretty but no depth. Spacey had the potential to be psychopathic as all get out and achieves that in spots.  The others are OK. Larson and Neill's cameos were tops.

The script is weak and the film too long.  If ever a script needed the sure hand of a script doctoring  Mankewicz or Joss Whedon, this was it.  What started as possibly the best Super-movie ever dove tails so fast, it was painful.  Ottoman's score is best when it echoes Williams.

The good news is that it will generate enough $ for a sequel  - one that i hope can stand on its own two legs rather than recycle an older, better film.  

When something is chewed up and spat out as something new its callled pablum.

Other than that, like I said, there are some iconic Superman moments and sequences, but edited together that makes ten minutes out of a 2 1/2
hour film.

However to most civilians, non-fans, the film is a success especially if one reads the reviews in great metropolitan newspapers.  The audience I saw it with barely laughed and after the shuttle save, no lite cheering.

Im sure Im in the minority on what some are calling "the best super hero movie ever!" (that still belongs to 'The Incredibles') but when I think about what this film could've been, as opposed it what it actually is, I get nuts.

I give it S! S! which really should be 1 1/2 but I cant make a half S!

Jeez- i thought I was going to be brief.  :shock:  

Some sleep and Ill get into point by point.

I closing: I got much more enjoyment out of reading All Star Superman 4 twice!  Page one I laughed and smiled throughout.  Imaginative storytelling and respect for character which the SR film didnt have.

And Where the Daxam was Ben Hubbard! I got gypped! Wink
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SteamTeck
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2006, 07:06:57 PM »

Well, gotta disagree with you there Klarr. I'm been a Superman fan since 1967 and I really enjoyed it. I will admit that even the revamped comics version post IC only thrills me so much but I think its unrealistic to expect perfection out of the movie
  The way luthor explained his plan frankly it worked better than 90% of comic book plans. They should have just shown him tapping into his advanced technology. Look at the plot holes in Superman 2!
  The deadbeat dad doesn't wash because he didn't know he had a son. He probably shouldn't have left in the first place but I can understand wishing to see his home world.
 Actually the beating and shiv worked for me. What else woud a sadistic phony like Luthor do when he had his greatest enemy at his mercy.
 If you don't think Routh added anything to the role you obviously slept through all but the reeeve lines which even those I actually kind of liked. I completely loathed Dean Cain's Clark kent in a Superman suit Routh is a million times better IMO.
 I liked the dynamic of Richard White ,Lois and Superman . I also liked the fact that White is a fine, even heroic man which makes the situation even harder and more tragic.
What I really liked was how the world loved Superman and how he loved the world. How they didn't try to make him gritty or relevant. He still stood for truth and justice and was willing to sacrifice himself for others.
 My audience was much more hyped than yours maybe that would have made a difference.
In any event for me the movie left me wanting to see it again and wanting the sequel to come out ASAP. I'll give it 31/2 stars out of 4
I know some of ( probably lots you guys will be tougher than me but for this long time Superman fan its a happy movie. ONe I will own as soon as it comes to DVD.
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 07:22:08 PM »

Steam, its just that my expectations got higher.  When I first saw the trailer I was like feh but as I saw more  I got  jazzed.  My Superman worship dates back to the 50s so im no stranger to the mythos.

Im glad you enjoyed. I enjoyed parts of it.  Luthor shouldve beat the crap out of Superman himself instead of his flunkies -- Silver Age style!

I hope they make more. Just better IMHO.  

BUT

I loved Superman doing super things - the shuttle sequence was awesome, holding a car over his head, leaping an 1/8 of a mile, a needle bursting on his skin, super peeping tom, super-feats from around the world -- !

He sure did a lot of lifting - each thing getting bigger as the film went on!
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 07:36:41 PM »

Superman fan from the 60s here myself...

I'm probably going to see it tomorrow...I think my big question will be does the Lois/child scenario add to the story of Superman or not...actually, I didn't mind that Superman showed his love for Lois in Donner film I, but even for me, the intensifying of the relationship in Superman II seemed forced, or self-contained, something that makes a movie but isn't as sustainable in a comics format for years and years...
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 07:49:07 PM »

The thing about the munchkin is that IF Superman did Lois in SM2, he did so WITHOUT his powers!

The other thing about the munchkin is that we never actually SAW him use any powers.  Its implied thru editing.

Lois may believe the kid is Superman's after the piano scenario BUT that could easily be explained as to the extreme rocking of the ship.

ME LAD - hello ~ spoilers thread? Think Tenzil think!
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2006, 08:36:25 PM »

Cool   I have "super" abilities to navigate spoiler threads and just pick up things that won't spoil it for me...

The kid having powers or not won't matter to me, because even though Supes did change outcomes in Superman I (by pretty lame means), it was much worse that he renounced powers and then got them back, so, that's already a dumb device for me...
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SteamTeck
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2006, 08:45:36 PM »

Klar,I certainly understand about expectations. I was pretty jazzed up to but I've gotten a pretty good sense of these things over the years. I'm part of the Oblivion PC game community alos and the game is a sequel to a similar Role playing game Morrowind and is a great game but they dropped some of the favorite role playing elements in the first game and replaced them with different mechanics and it was very disappointing for  a lot of people who then couldn't see the good points at all. Obviously your'e not like but the disappointment is strong and real.  I feel no movie or game can survive expextations so while I get excited at the possibilities I tend to not get caught up in the hype too much.
  I agree Luthor should have done the beating up himself not his flunkies. Well, luthor was still inferior to TAS luthor but LIGHTYEARS ahead of Gene Hackman. He made a credible villian and was also fun to watch.
 My wife didn't care much for the beating  herself. She didn't like seeing Superman trying to crawl away. This is the first incarnation of lois she actually likes. She dislikes all the comics versions and kind of tolerates the TAS one.
 Fan since the 50s. Wow!! Thats one thing I like about this board. All to often I'm the dinosaur on comics board. Here I'm just one of the boys.
 In any event more and better sounds good. I just hope they try to just tell a good Superman story rather than " outdo" the last one. That thinking  leads to disaster but looking at Xmen 1 and 2, I think we'll be OK.
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