superman.nuMary Immaculate of Lourdes NewtonComing MIRACLE MONDAY 2017!Holliston School Committeefacebook    
  •   forum   •   THIS WEEK'S CHAPTER: "THE ENTERTAINER!" •   fortress   •  
Superman Through the Ages! Forum
News: Superman Through the Ages! now located at theAges.superman.nu
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 12, 2022, 01:33:57 AM


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Heroes that are most like, most unlike Superman?  (Read 6177 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 09:37:37 AM »

One character that I think is interesting BECAUSE an effort was made to make him dissimilar to Superman, is Hyperion, the Superman-esque figure of the Squadron Supreme. Hyperion, at least as he was originally presented by Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart, was an arrogant muscleman that believes might makes right.

This is, among many other reasons, why I think the Gruenwald SQUADRON SUPREME miniseries was terminally overrated. The Gru "sanitized" the character of Hyperion and made him much more in like with his Superman point of inspiration, instead of letting Hype act like Hype. The only signs of the Thomas/Englehart Hyperion characterization in that mini was when in the scene where Hyperion pounded the everliving radioactive snot out of the Squadron Sinister Hyperion, saying "No one uses MY reputation to conceal MURDER and LUST!" After hitting him with George Washington's nose. That was an ever so slight glimmer of that personality type shining through.

Quote from: "nightwing"
Well, in the end it's true that there can only ever be one Superman, whereas "Captain America" is a nom de guerre that can be passed on to different men (and has been, as you note, in several storylines). Of course, take the "Cap" out of Steve, or Steve out of the suit, and neither is all it can be. Sort of like Sean Connery as James Bond.


My interpretation of the appearance of characters like the 50s Cap during the Englehart years (a mentally unstable demagogue) is that ultimately, Steve Rogers is irreplaceable. Every time some other guy has stepped up to plate the result has been that they've been unsuitable and that the original, Steve Rogers himself, has had to come back and show 'em how it's done.

Though it would be interesting to know if this means that perhaps sometime in the future, Rick Jones will become Captain America?

Quote from: "nightwing"
As for that "Bucky" stuff, I always did hate it. To me, that was Stan Lee trying deperately to shoe-horn some 60's-style Marvel pathos into a strip where it didn't belong. Cap does not fit the mold of the standard, self-doubting, whining Marvel hero and if he did he wouldn't work (as indeed he did not in his Tales of Suspense days, IMHO).


While I do agree with you that Stan never really could find an identity for Captain America, whose TALES OF SUSPENSE appearances were the least of the Lee Silver Age output, at the same time, the Bucky thing served two purposes:

1) It established why Marvel didn't have a kid sidekick tradition. AND NEVER SHOULD - are you listening, YOUNG AVENGERS?

2) It was the basis for a father/son friendship and relationship between Captain America and Rick Jones.

Quote from: "nightwing"
Well, I hesitate to say this to an Englehart fan, but I think Dr Strange shouldn't have been in the Defenders, either. That book always baffled me. It was as if Marvel was saying, "Here's all your favorite anti-social loners who don't work well in a team setting...together at last in a team book! Whee!" I suppose there's a certain irony there that makes it funny for readers and challenging for writers, but ultimately I think putting Strange in a team hurts the character.


Really? Because, if anything, Doctor Strange was the ONLY person that fight right into some of the DEFENDERS stories! What the Silver Surfer was doing there I'll never know.

I think the reason that Doctor Strange's presence in the Defenders worked was because, at least in their better stories, the "non-team" fought the sort of idiosyncratic menaces that one could see emerging in Doctor Strange's own book, and the story elements that emerged are suitably weird ones. An example would be Necrodamus and his Satan-worshipping cult, for instance, or the presence of Loki and Dormammu and Prester John's Evil Eye in the Avengers/Defenders War.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's a credit to Englehart and Gerber's skill for characterization and playing up all these idiosyncratic personalities that DEFENDERS didn't become "Doctor Strange and Friends." Examples would include the Englehart subplot with the Valkyrie falling in love with a man turned to stone, which was one of the more beautiful love stories of the Silver Age, as was the Gerber Nighthawk tales.

(Speaking of Nighthawk, is Kyle Richmond alive or not, at present? It's hard to keep track. Anyway, if he is back, could somebody give him his jetpack back? I was sorry when that thing got taken away.)

It's interesting to draw comparisons between Doctor Strange in DEFENDERS and Tony Stark in AVENGERS. Both guys provide the headquarters for both teams (Avengers Mansion or the Sanctum Sanctorum, respectively). Both serve as patrons, providing Quinjets, communicards, or Spells of Disguise for their respective teams. And both have some stylin 'stache action going on.

Quote from: "nightwing"
Oh, and I thought of another similarity between Cap and Supes...Alex Ross uses the same model for both! Ahem. Speaking of which, I was out of the room for a while, can anyone tell me if Ross' fifteen minutes are up yet?


I'm not placing Alex Ross in this category (his art is impressive, if a bit stiff) however, there are some ghastly writers and artists whose careers evaporate (Rob Liefeld comes to mind), but then again, there are others, usually people so astonishingly bad, that will. Never. Go. Away!

I'd lump my two sworn archenemies, Keith Giffen and John Byrne, in that category. Actually, I predict that if there was ever a nuclear war, these two would be the only survivors.

The same thing is found in showbiz, too. Madonna and Morrissey are, respectively, the Byrne and Giffen of the music world: cockroach-durable, unsinkable rubber ducks.
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 09:46:04 AM »

Can you imagine what the memo from on high to return Nighthawk's jetpack must look like?

"No slack or flack, tack that Nighthawk's jetpack back, Jack, or you're sacked."
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
nightwing
Defender of Kandor
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1627


Semper Vigilans


WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 11:19:48 AM »

Johnny Nevada writes:

Quote
Imagine Hal had a job to pay bills, or whatnot---don't think the Guardians hand out weekly paychecks or anything...


I think what Julian was getting at was that Hal doesn't really need to have a civilian life at all.  There seem to be a lot of other GLs in the corps who spend their days and nights on patrol in space without taking a lot of time out to woo their female bosses, go on picnics with other heroes, etc. (On the other hand, a lot of them do wear masks, so who knows?) Depending on just how big Sector 2814 is, and how many populated worlds it contains, you might even argue Hal is derelict in his duties by hanging out so much on Earth, which after all is pretty top-heavy with super-powered defenders.  Surely some planet somewhere in sector 2814 is having a major natural disaster all the time...meanwhile Hal's busy nabbing bank robbers in Hackensack with a giant green hand.

There was a run in the 80s where Hal was indeed dragged off of Earth and forced to operate in space, which you'd think would make for a really interesting, and for once totally logical, retooling of a comic.  But if memory serves it wasn't all that exciting in the end (despite some Dave Gibbons artwork).
Logged

This looks like a job for...
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

CURRENT FORUM

Archives: OLD FORUM  -  DCMB  -  KAL-L
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Entrance ·  Origin ·  K-Metal ·  The Living Legend ·  About the Comics ·  Novels ·  Encyclopaedia ·  The Screen ·  Costumes ·  Read Comics Online ·  Trophy Room ·  Creators ·  ES!M ·  Fans ·  Multimedia ·  Community ·  Supply Depot ·  Gift Shop ·  Guest Book ·  Contact & Credits ·  Links ·  Coming Attractions ·  Free E-mail ·  Forum

Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
The LIVING LEGENDS of SUPERMAN! Adventures of Superman Volume 1!
Return to SUPERMAN THROUGH THE AGES!
The Complete Supply Depot for all your Superman needs!