What Superman can teach Captain Marvel

[Michel Weisnor]

Poor Cap, I've always had a special place in my heart for the "Big Red Cheese". He's just published in the wrong way. Cap's incorporation in the DC Universe was a big mistake. Most likely, we'll see this truth clearer when Winick and Porter's revamp launches followed by Jeff Smith's Monster Society.


"At DC’s Brave New World panel, Mike Carlin made several comments about Jeff Smith’s upcoming Captain Marvel limited series, Captain Marvel and the Monster Society of Evil. I guess that answers the question of whether the book is still coming out, despite the upcoming Trials of Shazam! mini-series. Smith’s four-issue series is nearly done, with three issues of the four issues already in the can, and should be ready to ship early next year. It will be more in line with the historical portrayal of the character. The book was first announced in San Diego a few years ago, so it’s fitting that it would be brought up again." -Newsarama

"I'm having a blast doing it. I'm a Captain Marvel fan, and this is the Cheese story I always wanted to see!"- Jeff Smith

[Criadoman]

Oh boy - I was hedging on the whole Cap'n Marvel revamp, and now I find it's even worse.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again... Get Cap'n the hell out of mainstream DCU.  Some of my most favorite stories were with him and Supes teaming up to handle a menace that goes across the dimensions.  But until someone can think with the idea of 2 base-Superman (Marvel and the Supes himself) heros existing in the same universe without being redundant - then get him out.  Send him to Marvel for all I care - but get him out.

All I could think when I saw the picture above was "how long until he becomes the Spectre?"

[nightwing]

Julian, I'd argue that Plastic Man fits your criteria of "deeply personal works that only the original creator understood."  Plas and Cole were made for each other, and neither's as much fun without the other.

Cap should be a different story.  After all his tales were churned out "studio"-style and even Binder was a hired hand.  But I do think he captured, indeed defined the charm of his era and when you take him out of it things fall apart.  

That said, there were parts of Ordway's run that I really enjoyed, most notably the "Power of Shazam" one-shot that kicked it all off.  I loved that Cap looked like Billy's dad, suggesting that maybe he was created in Billy's idealized image of what a grown-up should be.  I also REALLY loved the bit at the end where the mysterious figure who took Billy to meet Shazam is revealed as Billy's dead father, and Billy's not as surprised as Dad expected him to be.  "What?" says Billy, "You thought I'd follow a stranger into the subway?"  What a perfect scene that was, and I nominate it as a supreme "Anti-Mopee," because while it's a late addition to the origin, it's one that actually works (after all, we never did see the stranger's face in the original version, so who's to say...?)

Cap, like Plas, deserved to rest in peace, but at the same time if they hadn't been brought back in the 70s, I'd never have "met" them and found the tales from their glory days.  So if nothing else, I guess there's some merit in keeping these characters in print if only to give readers a signpost to the good stuff.

[Super Monkey]

Just to have a little fun, here is what JulianPerez said about everyone's favorite Talking Tiger on Oct 09, 2005 at 2:48 pm:

And what's wrong with Mr. Tawny, the Talking Tiger? I've always been in favor of leaving characters period, but this sort of person has not gone away; I'd love to see an update of him. He'd probably listen to National Public Radio and drink Zima. (hey wait, that's me!)

Marvel is not great just because he is a great individual hero, but because of the wonderful world that surrounded him: Mr. Mind, Mr. Atom, Shazamo, the planet Venus, the crocodile men of Punkus, and yes, even the much maligned Mr. Tawny, the Talking Tiger.

Notice too, that besides taking a moment to slam that Silver Age straw man, Mr. Tawny, none of them ever mention any other member of the Marvel Family.

So why are you now "taking a moment to slam that Silver Age straw man, Mr. Tawny"?

[Sword of Superman]

Captain Marvel has became the proverbial dead horse.
No matter how many times they revamp this character it still won't work!
Putting him on an alternate Earth will only making the things worse for him,because living on the same planet with Superman,Justice League etc.gave to the Marvel Family an excellent background,such as will never gets if they standing alone on Earth-S.
Maybe i see things on this way because i never truly appreciate this hero but guys you must admit that if they reboot him almost every year there must be something wrong on him!

     

[nightwing]

SuperMonkey writes:

So why are you now "taking a moment to slam that Silver Age straw man, Mr. Tawny"?

Wow, SuperMonkey I was hoping you wouldn't go there.  This is really an awkward subject.  You see, this was Tawky and Julian last Fall:



Somehow in the last few months, though, it's all turned sour.  For a guy called "Tawky," that heartless Tiger never calls, he never writes...

First Lee and Farah, then Jen and Brad, now this.  :cry:

[JulianPerez]

Just to have a little fun, here is what JulianPerez said about everyone's favorite Talking Tiger on Oct 09, 2005 at 2:48 pm:

And what's wrong with Mr. Tawny, the Talking Tiger? I've always been in favor of leaving characters period, but this sort of person has not gone away; I'd love to see an update of him. He'd probably listen to National Public Radio and drink Zima. (hey wait, that's me!)

Marvel is not great just because he is a great individual hero, but because of the wonderful world that surrounded him: Mr. Mind, Mr. Atom, Shazamo, the planet Venus, the crocodile men of Punkus, and yes, even the much maligned Mr. Tawny, the Talking Tiger.

Notice too, that besides taking a moment to slam that Silver Age straw man, Mr. Tawny, none of them ever mention any other member of the Marvel Family.

So why are you now "taking a moment to slam that Silver Age straw man, Mr. Tawny"?

Moral of the story: if I ever change my mind about something, make sure that SuperMonkey isn't watching!

Well, there, I guess I defended Mr. Tawny on principle, because he was kind of absurd and at some level superheroes shouldn't be divorced from their absurdity. It bugged me people were badmouthing Mr. Tawny for being ridiculous, because that sort of playful oddity was the purpose of a lot of the Shazam stuff; and slamming Tawky for it is missing the point.

But after having gotten some more access to SHAZAM! reprints, Mr. Tawny struck me as being more and more irritating and unwelcome. And maybe this isn't his fault, but Tawny was introduced in the post-war years, which is when the Marvel Family was starting to jump the shark and his presence is where dissatisfaction crystalizes, much like Jar-Jar is associated with the plot holes in PHANTOM MENACE. Though really, anything after the incredible Monster Society of Evil arc that ran from 1943 to 1945 in CAPTAIN MARVEL ADVENTURES would be something of a letdown, or the Mac Raboy art on CAPTAIN MARVEL JR. between 1942-1943 (as great as C.C. Beck could be, the Raboy action stuff was absolutely dynamite, as were his FLASH GORDON dailies). Much like STAR TREK in the third season, Marvel Family didn't stay jumped; guys like Binder and Kanigher still produced some amazing stuff after 1947, certainly (the Bulletgirl crossover comes to mind, as does the first appearance of Mr. Atom, one of the slickest supervillain designs yet).

Also...Mr. Tawny, that cad, never returns any of my calls. I'm in the book, Tawny! CALL ME!

[MatterEaterLad]

How often was the Tiger appearing?