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Author Topic: Grant Morrison on Batman  (Read 8220 times)
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Permanus
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2006, 07:13:13 AM »

Wow, he really plowed into Miller and a lot of the other dumb stuff DC has done to Batman in the past. I'm surprised that he's allowed to do that, actually; I'd have thought DC would have some sort of policy that if you're working for them, you can't overtly criticise anything they do.
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 04:09:29 PM »

Commandment #1:  Thou shalt not criticize Dan Didio, for he is the word and the way -- the was, the is, the yet-to-be.  As it has ever been, so shall it ever be, until UberGod (secret identity: Richard Parsons) says otherwise.

If you don't like someone's work, and you both get your paycheck from the same place, you don't want to find out through the press.  You at least have the discussion inhouse and make some attempt to inform and hear what the other party has to say.  I suspect that through means that involves dadaistic chaos magic, Xorn, and an occasional bitchslapping, he probably knows this.  "I'm the goddamn Frank Miller" was probably sick of hearing what Morrison has to say by the time it hit Newsarama.  

As for the other stuff...

- Bat-Mite can work, as long as Batman's reaction to magic is considerably different than Superman's (while still being interesting).  I think of DCAU and "The Demon Within" as sort of an example -- get through it, then treat the subject like a bad hangover.  "Don't ask."

- Ace should be Alfred's pet more than Bruce's, at least initially.  Think Magnum P.I. and Higgins' "lads".  Make it be a 'humanity' challenge for Bruce to get the dog to like him.  

- I can't see Batman going in for cheap sex with dim socialites.  You want something that doesn't fit with a good Batman, Julian?  There ya go!

- Talia didn't really have that kid with Batman.  It was with some guy named McGuinness...
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Permanus
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2006, 09:26:56 PM »

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
- Ace should be Alfred's pet more than Bruce's, at least initially.  Think Magnum P.I. and Higgins' "lads".  Make it be a 'humanity' challenge for Bruce to get the dog to like him.  

I love this so much that I want you to be the next Batman writer, Mxy.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2006, 12:43:31 AM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Don't forget "Ace" appeared on Batman Beyond as the elderly Bruce Wayne's rather cantankerous guard dog. So there's always ways to make formerly goofy concepts work.


Yeah, that was pretty funny stuff, with the dog. The dog can WORK; just give a dog a personality. Alan Moore did the best hero dog in SUPREME, by recognizing that dogs have all sorts of extremely heroic qualities: single-minded heroism, devotion, and so on.

If that Scots git, Morrison, can make Bat-Mite work, more power to him, though I'll believe it when I see it.

As for Frank Miller's Bat-Stuff...he didn't work on Batman long enough to really "jump the shark" the way he eventually did on DAREDEVIL, with the introduction of the Ninja-centered plots, and Daredevil's blind master that tells him a radar sense is for wusses.

For the longest time, I didn't like DARK KNIGHT RETURNS because Batman was so...well...DERANGED: experiencing Rambo-style flashbacks while machine-gunning children and delivering Schwartzenegger-style monosyllibisms ("I believe you" while making a street punk look like swiss cheese with a BFG). I hated the excessive brutality, and the way Batman was presented as being someone whose primary motivation is psychological compulsion and vengeance instead of a legitimate instinct to heroism and the desire to protect the weak.

"This isn't smart comics," I said to myself, oh-so-iconoclastically, "this is one big Sylvester Stallione flick, crossed with an archconservative's revenge wet dream." Hell, they even give what's coming to an obvious doppleganger of that wicked Jewess, Dr. Ruth - if this book was made today, I'm POSITIVE it would involve Batman punching in the face Bill, Hillary, and Socks the Cat in that order. I have no idea where some people say Miller is a liberal; then again, maybe Miller intentionally designed DKR so it would piss off everyone of every political orientation.

It didn't help that Miller's work was praised as being a return to the "pulp roots of the character," a statement only true if Adams, Englehart, and O'Neil are ignored.

But utimately, I lightened up on DKR and actually started to like it because, while YES, Batman doesn't really use his detective skills, and YES, Batman is presented as being rather psychotic, the thing is, that's not supposed to be "our" Batman. It's an older, nuttier Batman who has gone slightly bonkers. It's easier to appreciate if you divorce this from "our" Batman.

That's why people not "getting" DKR is so frustrating; it's not SUPPOSED to be how Batman should be written; that's the whole point. It ISN'T Batman, and can't be pointed to as his correct characterization.

I haven't read Miller's recent stuff, but from what I hear, his creative instincts have pretty much died. Then again, you never know; I said the same thing about Englehart circa MILLENNIUM and NEW GUARDIANS, but he's rebounded since with AVENGERS: CELESTIAL QUEST, STRANGERS, and NIGHTMAN.

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
Commandment #1: Thou shalt not criticize Dan Didio, for he is the word and the way -- the was, the is, the yet-to-be. As it has ever been, so shall it ever be, until UberGod (secret identity: Richard Parsons) says otherwise.


Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
If you don't like someone's work, and you both get your paycheck from the same place, you don't want to find out through the press.


Isn't there supposed to be a rule of professional behavior that you're not supposed to be critical of other people's work? This makes passive-aggressiveness rise to an all-time high.

This can actually be made into a game: find the most dodgy answer in an interview

    INTERVIEWER: What do you think of Todd MacFarlane's writing?
    PROFESSIONAL: Todd MacFarlane is a very gifted artist.[/list]
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    "Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
           - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
    JulianPerez
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    « Reply #12 on: August 28, 2006, 02:24:18 PM »

    I also love how Grant Morrison gave Batman such a wonderful sense of humor in his JUSTICE LEAGUE stuff. Batman's seriousness about crimefighting was a neverending reservoir of snappy, humorous dialogue. Like:

      WONDER WOMAN: Why would anyone need to know how long they can hold their breath?
      BATMAN: Three minutes, fifteen seconds.
      BATMAN: You'd be surprised why...[/list]

      How is it that Batman could be so funny, and Plastic Man so unfunny?
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      "Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
             - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
      Gangbuster
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      « Reply #13 on: August 28, 2006, 08:12:30 PM »

      I think I wrote a Supermanica entry on Bat-Mite at one
      point...

      Edit: Aha, I did!

      http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Bat-Mite
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      dmat
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      « Reply #14 on: August 30, 2006, 01:38:58 AM »

      Maybe Bruce and Talia's son is the new Bat-Mite?  :shock:
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