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Author Topic: Iron Age Retrospective  (Read 18858 times)
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Gary
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 06:19:29 PM »

Stern hardly deserves the sole credit for Panic in the Sky; like most everything of that era, it was done as a sort of round robin between Stern, Simonson, Jurgens, and Ordway.

Hamilton is a scientist, something like a Professor Potter but not as goofy. Both he and Gangbuster were part of the pre-death supporting cast -- the latter, in fact, pretty much disappeared after the death storyline -- and both did appear in Panic as part of the Earth defense force, although there wasn't much for them to do.

(Post edited for formatting)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:09:16 PM by Gary » Logged
JulianPerez
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2006, 11:27:50 PM »

Here's an interview by George Khoury with the funniest man in comics, Roger Stern, a true wit and incredible talent, easily the greatest of Superman's Iron Age writers:

http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/features/int_stern_1006_1.html
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SteamTeck
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2006, 09:04:53 PM »

Stern hardly deserves the sole credit for Panic in the Sky; like most everything of that era, it was done as a sort of round robin between Stern, Simonson, Jurgens, and Ordway.

Hamilton is a scientist, something like a Professor Potter but not as goofy. Both he and Gangbuster were part of the pre-death supporting cast -- the latter, in fact, pretty much disappeared after the death storyline -- and both did appear in Panic as part of the Earth defense force, although there wasn't much for them to do.



(Post edited for formatting)


 I always really liked Hamilton and really hated the whole "ruin" storyline. I too really enjoyed some of the early post crisis stuff and felt that Some of these things really did "get" Superman. But then again I always felt the TAS continuety should be the "real" one. 
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MichaelBailey
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2006, 06:21:49 AM »

It's kind of funny, I agree with the philosphy that Superman would always find another way in favor of killing his opponent but at the same time, on a dramatic level, I found what John Byrne to be interesting.  What would happen if he crossed that line?  It led to almost two years of interesting stories and probably one of my all time favorite story arcs, Exiles.
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MichaelBailey
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2006, 05:42:56 AM »

I posted this at another message board which I don't post at anymore back when IC 1st started:

To me that's not really Superman, and to The Great Rao who runs that site, it's not really Superman.

as to why, there are countless reasons.

You asked about the Origin, I will let you yourself and others here answer, since it's easy to figure out, can you guess which version I am referring to? I will explain why that version and so called Superman doesn't fit.

1. Where was Kal-El born?
Answer: In every origin, he was born on Krypton, except one where he was born on Earth.

Except when they changed things in Birthright, which had him born on Krypton.

2. Krypton's destruction was a tragic event.
This is true in all versions except one.
actual quote: "Wendy Pini said I'd created a Krypton that deserved to blow up." - John Byrne

I would argue that in Byrne's origin Krypton's destruction was a tragic event.  After sending the birthing matrix off Jor-El professed his love for Lara, something that had been anathema to the citizens of that world.  Jor-El was a rebel and maybe if the world hadn't been destroyed he would have changed things, but that chance was taken away.

To me that is tragic.

And again, that seemed to have been changed in Birthright.

3. Jor-El and Lora were loving parents, the rocket was made for two, the baby and one adult, Jor-el wanted Lora to go with Kal-El to Earth, he was willing to die to save her, she however, couldn't bare to live without him so they decided they would rather die together than live apart, so the baby was sent alone.

That happen in every origin except one.

Actually in the radio origin and several other early versions Jor-El (or Jor-L) wanted Lara (or Lora) to go instead of the kid.  And in the movie it was pretty clear that the ship was only going to hold the kid, so there have been variations on that theme.

4. When baby Kal-el arrives on Earth, one of his 1st acts was to save Pa Kents life by lifting that truck, in one of the all time classic scenes. (the movies anyways) Which foreshadows his career as the world's greatest superhero.

That happen in all versions except one.

Uh, I think that only happened in the first movie.  On the radio show Superman initally arrived as an adult before they changed it to the more recognizable one.  The serials and television series had the ship bursting into flames, as did George Lowthar's novel.  Even the classic Silver Age origin didn't have that happen.

5. Growing up in Smallville, young Clark learns how to master his powers (sometimes as Superboy sometimes not).

That happen in all versions except one.

In later issues of the Byrne run it was revelaed that as his powers increased he would go to a quarry to practice.  And later stories revealed how he learned to keep his bearings while flying.  I'd also argue that the fact that he had such a good handle on his powers later proves that he worked at it as they came along.

6. The Kents taught him never to abuse his powers, ie for Sports, and of course not to kill.

Only in one version was he a football jock, and other than the early few issues of the Golden Age stories which were quickly reconned, did he commit cold blooded murder, then only afterward did he figure out that he should not kill, then he kills again anyway.

In Man of Steel #1 Pa is obviously disappointed in Clark for playing football the way he does and when he discovers the events surrounding him coming to Earth he changes his tune.  Plus there was the incredible story of his friend becoming a vegetable in a drunk driving accident.

And as I said as much as I agree that Superman shouldn't kill it is still worth pursuing the question of what would happen if he did.

7. About the Kents, when one or both of them die he moves to Metropolis.

That happen in all versions except one.

I think enough has been done with Ma and Pa being alive to justify this, not only in the comics but on television as well.  Plus, I have always been confused with why you people want two old people to die just to give Superman some angst.

8. "Superman is Superman and Clark Kent is an assumed identity - his facade. The disguise of Clark may be vivid, important, and beloved to Superman - but Kal-El's true nature is that of the Hero. Clark has depth and preferences and structures of belief that grow as he grows older but they are all constructs of Superman's obsession with him. Clark is Superman's hobby and his template for humanity."

That is true in all versions except one.

I like a balance between the two, but again Lois and Clark also went in this direction, for good or ill.  Personally I like the concept of Clark being the real guy because I can relate to that more than someone who has to pretend to be human to relate to us.

9. Superman was the 1st Superhero.

This was the case on Earth-1 and Earth-2. Not true for one version.

In all honesty this doesn't bother me, but at the same time this wasn't John Byrne's fault.  That was the Crisis on Infinite Earths, though there was the story done in the Golden Age Secret Files and Origins that revealed the fact that the Crimson Avenger (cited as the first masked crimefighter of the Golden-Age in DC history) was spurned to action by a vision of Superman dying in his battle with Doomsday.  So in a way Superman did inspire the Golden Age of heroes.

10. "Superman honors and cherishes the memory of Krypton, not just because all things of beauty should be treasured, but because the values and strengths of Krypton's society are the foundation of Superman's character."

Again true in all version, except one.

Krypton never seemed to be as important to the Earth-2 Superman.  And the fact that the "Iron Age" Superman got around to getting a Fortress of Solitiude to honor his past.  And I would put the values instilled by loving parents on Earth over the same values that were taught in previous versions on Krypton.

And again Lois and Clark didn't do this, Smallville hasn't done this and even the animated series implied that his virtue and heroism comes from the Kents, not Krypton.

11. "Superman is not just some big guy with a lot of powers. He is a shining example of all that is worthwhile in humanity. His morals are also Super. He is an inspirational and aspirational role model"

True, except for one version as Batman pointed out

Ok, when Batman said that it was at a certain point where Superman was at a low point.  Before that Superman was often cited as the light that others heroes followed.  And during the events of Infinite Crisis when Superman got his act together people followed.  Superman was an inspiration and a role model and to say that the "Iron Age" Superman wasn't shows an ignorance of the material.

And Mark Waid has been allowed near Superman since that second quiz, so I'm surprised you didn't edit that part out.





« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 05:48:44 AM by MichaelBailey » Logged

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SteamTeck
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2006, 07:01:07 PM »

Well, the idea of an Iron Age Superman is misleading since there never was a real Superman during the Iron Age.

The title should have said "Superman Returns!" but that was already taken.  Wink

A real Superman?

So the last survivor of Krypton who wore the costume and was secretly Clark Kent didn't exist during that time?

Funny, I seem to have twenty years of comics that say different.

I guess my question here is what exactly was it about the Superman of that era that bothered you so much?

He was a wimpy, indescisive, often morally challenged whinner compared to the real Superman and frankly even compared to me in real life.  most of his supporting cast personalities became unrecognozable or they were replaced with vastly inferior "more relevant" versions I liked Byrnes early stuff but things went south afterwards real fast as most iron age writers didn't get heroism or optimism or larger than life..  My hatred for Azzarello(sp) and Rucka's work probably is so deep that you couldn't comprehend it. They turned Superman into a person I not only couldn't look up to but felt I couldn't count on.
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shazamtd
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 07:36:51 PM »

Quote
I think enough has been done with Ma and Pa being alive to justify this, not only in the comics but on television as well.  Plus, I have always been confused with why you people want two old people to die just to give Superman some angst.

Superman never had angst until the iron age when his parents were alive. 

Quote
I like a balance between the two, but again Lois and Clark also went in this direction, for good or ill.  Personally I like the concept of Clark being the real guy because I can relate to that more than someone who has to pretend to be human to relate to us.

I can't understand why people think they have to relate to a character to enjoy a story.  Besides, Superman is someone who knows how to handle things.  Not someone who can't get his act together.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 07:41:58 PM by shazamtd » Logged

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davidelliott
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2006, 07:45:37 PM »

...there was the story done in the Golden Age Secret Files and Origins that revealed the fact that the Crimson Avenger (cited as the first masked crimefighter of the Golden-Age in DC history) was spurned to action by a vision of Superman dying in his battle with Doomsday.  So in a way Superman did inspire the Golden Age of heroes.

10. "Superman honors and cherishes the memory of Krypton, not just because all things of beauty should be treasured, but because the values and strengths of Krypton's society are the foundation of Superman's character."

Again true in all version, except one.

Krypton never seemed to be as important to the Earth-2 Superman.  And the fact that the "Iron Age" Superman got around to getting a Fortress of Solitiude to honor his past.  And I would put the values instilled by loving parents on Earth over the same values that were taught in previous versions on Krypton.

Well, that Crimson Avenger thing just sounds stupid... getting a vision from the future spurns someone to become a mystery man is such a stretch to have Superman inspire a generation of heroes ti keep up tradition.. just wrong...

And the Earth Two Superman, once he found out he was from Krypton, DID honor his birth planet.  In Action 484, he marries Lois in his Fortress under giant status of Jor-L and Lora... that ceremony WAS a Kryptonian ceremony.  He even adopted phrases like "Great Rao" and whatnot... so he was like his Earth One counterpart in those respects.. he just found out about his heritage later in his life than Kal-El did.

Think about it... when someone realizes he's adopted and can find out about his burth parents, he goes all out.. when someone who had a parent die when he was young (like I did) it become an obsession to find everything you can out about that parent and adopt mannerisms and stuff so you can be like them.  Kal-L and Kal-El did just that pre-Crisis.. the Iron Age Kal seemed to care less..
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