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Author Topic: Viewpoint: A Generational Perspective on the Iron Age Superman...  (Read 26882 times)
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NotSuper
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« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2006, 05:37:37 AM »

Wolfman wasn't a bad writer by any means. I just didn't care for his post-Crisis run on Superman. Oddly enough, I did like his pre-Crisis Superman stories. I doubt that view is shared by either camp of Superman fans, though.

I liked his run on the Titans, too. It was also one of DC's top selling books.
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Many people want others to accept their opinions as fact. If enough people accept them as fact then it gives the initial person or persons a feeling of power. This is why people will constantly talk about something they hate—they want others to feel the same way. It matters to them that others perceive things the same way that they do.
Genis Vell
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2006, 07:04:18 PM »

I liked both Wolfman's pre and post-Crisis stories. If I'm not wrong, he is the only writer who worked on the characters in the two eras.
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Genis Vell
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2006, 07:17:33 PM »

You don't get American radio so you don't know how DC actually said this time and time again, and refuse to reprint any old stories. Again, my opinion is based on actual facts.

You're right, I don't know what they said in radio, comiconventions or comics journals. I'm sure that they tried to promote their new Superman (business are business), but not that they hated the classic version of the character. Byrne, Stern and others love Superman, even if they worked on a modern, new version of the character. They gave us a surely different Superman, a Superman for the '80s and '90s, but with untouched basics. Is Superman from Krypton? Is Superman Clark Kent? Does Clark work at the Planet? Does Superman love Lois Lane? The answer is always "Yes". Particular changed (even big ones), but most of the myth was still there. Consider it just a phase in the editorial life of the character. Now it's over, and we have another new version. Maybe in 20 years there will be another Superman, and so on. I loved the Byrne era, now I'm enjoying what Busiek is doing.

By the way, I'm glad to see that, despite the different opinions, this discussion is very polite and interesting. Thank you.
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2006, 12:18:20 AM »

You don't get American radio so you don't know how DC actually said this time and time again, and refuse to reprint any old stories. Again, my opinion is based on actual facts.

You're right, I don't know what they said in radio, comiconventions or comics journals. I'm sure that they tried to promote their new Superman (business are business), but not that they hated the classic version of the character. Byrne, Stern and others love Superman, even if they worked on a modern, new version of the character. They gave us a surely different Superman, a Superman for the '80s and '90s, but with untouched basics. Is Superman from Krypton? Is Superman Clark Kent? Does Clark work at the Planet? Does Superman love Lois Lane? The answer is always "Yes". Particular changed (even big ones), but most of the myth was still there. Consider it just a phase in the editorial life of the character. Now it's over, and we have another new version. Maybe in 20 years there will be another Superman, and so on. I loved the Byrne era, now I'm enjoying what Busiek is doing.

By the way, I'm glad to see that, despite the different opinions, this discussion is very polite and interesting. Thank you.

You don't understand, they said that the classic Superman was stupid. This was around the same time as the Death storyline. So this was a LONG standing settlement there.

If you read the liner notes of Superman in the 60's, you can tell that they appeared to be ashamed to be reprinting the stories. At least in the English version.

Thankfully, things have long since change and DC has embrace their past with open arms, once they figured out they could make a lot of money off of classic fans of course!

I know one of the editors in Chief at DC, I talked to him about it, I am not making any of this up, believe me!

John Byrne was a big fan of the cartoons, TV show and films (you can tell he borrowed a lot from them) but he wasn't a fan of the comics, he never read them until after he got the job, then he hated them and changed everything he thought was dumb.

That's the truth, just read some interviews that he made.

My opinions are just my opinions, as long as you like classic Superman too, you can love anything else and that would be fine with me. That's only because this is a classic Superman website so it would be weird to post here if you didn't like the classic version as well.  Wink

So to post here you must like classic Superman and be nice person for the most part (no one is perfect  Wink), you can disagree with everything I write, and that's ok with me, as long as those two things are true.



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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2006, 03:04:34 AM »

Good, that gives me another chance to get in my four or five times a year statement that I don't like the Bronze Age Superman... Grin
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Genis Vell
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2006, 11:51:16 AM »

You don't understand, they said that the classic Superman was stupid. This was around the same time as the Death storyline. So this was a LONG standing settlement there.

Missed this.
As told above, they wanted to promote their new production... In a way I dislike, though.

Quote
If you read the liner notes of Superman in the 60's, you can tell that they appeared to be ashamed to be reprinting the stories. At least in the English version.

I haven't that (only the '70s trade).

Quote
Thankfully, things have long since change and DC has embrace their past with open arms, once they figured out they could make a lot of money off of classic fans of course!

Included me.

Quote
I know one of the editors in Chief at DC, I talked to him about it, I am not making any of this up, believe me!

John Byrne was a big fan of the cartoons, TV show and films (you can tell he borrowed a lot from them) but he wasn't a fan of the comics, he never read them until after he got the job, then he hated them and changed everything he thought was dumb.

That's the truth, just read some interviews that he made.

I'll search for them. Or I'll ask him. But I'm still sure that various authors didn't hate the character. The big guns and the editors... Well, maybe they did. Or at least, they didn't care about him. Just like it happened at Marvel when Jemas arrived... Did he care for the characters? No. Did he know them? No. Look at what he did... Sigh.

Quote
My opinions are just my opinions, as long as you like classic Superman too, you can love anything else and that would be fine with me. That's only because this is a classic Superman website so it would be weird to post here if you didn't like the classic version as well.  Wink

So to post here you must like classic Superman and be nice person for the most part (no one is perfect  Wink), you can disagree with everything I write, and that's ok with me, as long as those two things are true.

Well, Byrne's run is my favorite, but I love the pre-Crisis version of the character.
I have spent a lot of time and money searching for Bronze Age original comics (which you cannot find very easily here in Italy... Mile high comics has been very useful!), I regularly buy the SHOWCASE PRESENTS and CHRONICLES trades... So don't worry!
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« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 12:06:54 AM »

In my beginning as a comic book reader i know only the Iron Age Superman,wich some time i like it and some times not Huh?,but i never truly appreciated him,because i was missing one important thing,is roots,but time was at my side,so i gradually learned what the character was really supposed to be,and now i can say that i'm sorry for reader who like it,i truly respect their opinion,but for me the Superman from Byrne and the '90 version was just a commercial attempt,for giving to everyone who has always thinked that this hero was silly,the idea that he wasn't,they didn't make a good job.
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« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 03:02:12 PM »


The thing I think we should keep in mind on a historical level is the fact that the sales on the Superman titles were lousy.  I don't have actual numbers (sorry)

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/5075/381/1600/796823/top100.jpg

The above link is to a Top 100 list of comics sales from January 1985, the second month of the original Crisis miniseries.

Top 10:
1.x-men
2.ff
3.crisis #2
4.web of spiderman
5.alpha flight
6.new mutant
7.amazing spiderman
8.teen titans
9.who's who
10.thor

superman titles

30.superman's secret years min #4
50.DC comics presents #81
92.superman #407
94.action #566
99.world's finest #314

keep in mind, these are direct market sales and also probably crisis tie-ins (not to mention, word had already got out that the superman family titles were in for a change so fans my have stopped buying the titles in a "wait and see" sort of move).

most of the superman titles come in well below just about any other piece of crap in the direct market, from muppet babies (#98) to ROM spaceknight (#22) to Grimjack (#47) to teenage mutant ninja turtles #2 (#75)

list from Amazing Heroes #73 june 15, 1985
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