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Author Topic: Why I DON'T like Alan Moore's Superman tales  (Read 22085 times)
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dto
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« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2006, 08:21:12 AM »


I think one of the reasons why the CIA had so many opponents early on is that it was set up in such a way that it doesn't really answer to anyone, be it the Pentagon, the President or Congress.  That was as scary a notion then as it is now. 


Actually most of the opposition came from other agencies jealously protecting their "turf", such as military intelligence services and the FBI.  (J. Edgar Hoover didn't care for the OSS, either.)

Pity we never had a "Wonder Woman" and "The Bionic Woman" crossover -- one wonders if there was any interdepartmental rivalry between IADC and OSI.  Or perhaps due to a bureaucratic snafu, BOTH agencies send their top female agents undercover to the SAME case -- without knowing of the other's involvement!   Shocked  Hmm... Jaime Sommers was a professional tennis player, and her skydiving accident probably made the newspapers.  It probably wouldn't take Diana long to figure out that Jaime was fitted with bionics.  But would the Bionic Woman discover Diana Prince's secret?   Wink
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DTO
nightwing
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« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2006, 01:53:31 PM »

Aldous writes:

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But it is on DVD, Nightwing. I have rented the whole first season on DVD from my local store. The set included "The Six Million Dollar Man" ("The Moon and the Desert" pilot film), both subsequent TV movies (which I don't like), and all of the first season episodes from "Population: Zero" onwards.

Alas, it's not available here in Region 1.  I know it's been out in the UK for some time (and, I gather from your post, available to Aussies and Kiwis as well), but here in the States it's still a no-show.  Universal won't give any answer as to why, although speculation has ranged from legal issues (like the also AWOL "Batman") to waiting for a movie tie-in (though the Jim Carrey movie now seems, mercifully, dead).  Two years ago they circulated a brochure that suggested Steve and Jamie would both show up on disc, but there's been no news since then.

I'm half tempted to buy one of those multi-region players just so I can buy a Region 2 or 4 copy of SMDM off eBay. 

And what do you mean you didn't like the second two TV movies?  What's not to love about wannabe James Bond movies made on a $20 budget?  And that groovy Dusty Springfield version of the theme song..."The Six Million Dollar MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!"

Oh well, lots of weird stuff going on in the DVD market.  I understand fans in England can't get the Avengers!! Shocked

dto writes:

Quote
Pity we never had a "Wonder Woman" and "The Bionic Woman" crossover -- one wonders if there was any interdepartmental rivalry between IADC and OSI.  Or perhaps due to a bureaucratic snafu, BOTH agencies send their top female agents undercover to the SAME case -- without knowing of the other's involvement!     Hmm... Jaime Sommers was a professional tennis player, and her skydiving accident probably made the newspapers.  It probably wouldn't take Diana long to figure out that Jaime was fitted with bionics.  But would the Bionic Woman discover Diana Prince's secret?   

It wouldn't take a bionically-enhanced ear to hear that explosion every time Diana twirled around in a locked office!  Cheesy

I remember being a bit disappointed that they saddled Diana with a "secret agent" gig in the later seasons.  That made it seem like just another SMDM wannabe, like "Gemini Man," "The Invisible Man," "Man From Atlantis" and all those other "James Bond with superpowers" shows from the 70s.

Plus, you've gotta wonder how Diana Prince would ever get top-level security clearance when, by all rights, there should be no record of her birth, education, previous employment or even American citizenship.

Or maybe that would make you the ideal spy.  Hmm....
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2006, 06:28:56 PM »

If Alan Moore wanted to do as you say and bring to a close things of lasting importance to the mythos, instead of an exercise in sixties fetishization like I say... why the Heck would he make the Kryptonite Man such a big player? 

Maybe because the "saintly" Bates and Maggin did the same thing...

http://superman.nu/tales2/whotook/4/

Two things:

One: Yes, Kryptonite Man does make appearances in the 1970s and later. But KM was only a regular part of the scenery of the Superman book, and a niche in the Superman world, in the decades prior - which makes his big role an idiosyncratic and rather inappropriate choice, considering the kind of story "Whatever Happened..." was supposed to be.

Two: Relax - nobody's attacking Superman in the sixties. Okay, think of it like this: I love the "Cap's Kooky Kwartet" Era of Avengers a great deal, when the Avengers were just Cap and three reformed super-villains. However, if a contemporary writer wanted to replicate the Quartet era dynamic, he wouldn't be able to because all the characters have moved ON since then: Hawkeye has since been LEADER of his own Avengers team. He's not going to fight with Captain America or be a hothead. Scarlet Witch is a powerful, confident woman and no longer a doormat, and Quicksilver realizes this and he no longer is obsessively protective as he used to be. Further, Wanda's been married...she's pretty much gotten over her cute little crush on Captain America, and Hawkeye and the Scarlet Witch are now just really good friends. I love this era, but it would be thoughtless and dumb to attempt to duplicate it.

That's my big problem with Moore's Superman proper stories. My problem with SUPREME is the above-stated disses by omission.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2006, 12:59:53 AM »

My point was that Maggin and Bates picked very similar criminals, Moore couldn't use Amalak (dead), and he didn't use Parasite or Terra Man, but otherwise the list of Superman's greatest foes was the same for "Who Took The Super Out of Superman?" and "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" without the inclusion of the original (and true  Grin ) Legion of Super Villians in the former.
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Johnny Nevada
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« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2006, 02:30:36 AM »

>>
Plus, you've gotta wonder how Diana Prince would ever get top-level security clearance when, by all rights, there should be no record of her birth, education, previous employment or even American citizenship.


At least in the Golden Age, Wonder Woman got her secret identity/job/etc. from a lookalike woman who was named Diana Prince and worked for the military, who wanted to move to South America to be with her fiancee; Wonder Woman simply stood took over for the Latin-America-bound "real" Diana Prince. Not sure if the same situation happened on Earth-1 or not...
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Aldous
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2006, 05:13:50 AM »

Nightwing: 

Quote
Plus, you've gotta wonder how Diana Prince would ever get top-level security clearance when, by all rights, there should be no record of her birth, education, previous employment or even American citizenship.

Johnny Nevada: 

Quote
At least in the Golden Age, Wonder Woman got her secret identity/job/etc. from a lookalike woman who was named Diana Prince and worked for the military, who wanted to move to South America to be with her fiancee; Wonder Woman simply stood took over for the Latin-America-bound "real" Diana Prince. Not sure if the same situation happened on Earth-1 or not...

Yes, that was my understanding too, that Diana took on the identity of another (real) woman who was out of the country; very much like The Shadow & Lamont Cranston I suppose.
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Aldous
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2006, 05:20:21 AM »

dto:

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Pity we never had a "Wonder Woman" and "The Bionic Woman" crossover

I very much doubt my bourgeoning hormones could have coped with Lynda Carter and Lindsay Wagner on the screen at the same time............  Shocked  Tongue  Grin
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Aldous
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2006, 05:42:06 AM »

I remember being a bit disappointed that they saddled Diana with a "secret agent" gig in the later seasons.  That made it seem like just another SMDM wannabe, like "Gemini Man," "The Invisible Man," "Man From Atlantis" and all those other "James Bond with superpowers" shows from the 70s.

You're being a little unfair, my friend. Once you have a TV character with super-powers, what are you going to do with them? Gemini Man, week after week, could act out the fantasies of adolescence, like creeping into women's change rooms or pinching bikini-clad bums on the beach (maybe the footprints in the sand could create some dramatic tension). The Man From Atlantis, finding himself short of a bob or two, could get work for a fishing company as a tracker, but after several weeks (minutes?) of deep sea fishing scenes, it might all get kind of boring.

However, I have to admit, I haven't seen those later episodes of "Wonder Woman". I rented the DVD set (nostalgia, you understand), and when I watched the pilot episode I was amazed what a gorgeous creature Ms. Carter was in that get-up, but found the story weak -- although fun and watchable. The first episode proper I thought was awful, and it went downhill from there, and I returned the DVDs unwatched for the most part. An awful series that doesn't hold up at all, unlike some of those 70s gems.
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