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Author Topic: Donner Cut more popular than I thought...  (Read 12277 times)
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Klar Ken T5477
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2006, 02:40:10 PM »

Yeah the recut Thau definitely leads one to believe that Supes offed the Zoners and Lex - I was watching a sneak weeks before official release and was shouting "Code against killing?!!!"

I think I'll chalk the viewing up to a Red K induced "what If" scenario or "Imaginary Story" and forget about it. Didn't like the Lois discovers Clark's identity scenario either as lame as the Lester version was - that at least worked on a subconscious desire as opposed to being tricked by a wiley coyote...uh..Lois.
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2006, 03:12:16 PM »

It looks like Superman and Lois fly to a nearby ice flow and look back at the Fortress.  Only then Superman turns and aims his beams at the Fortress, which is about 90 to 120 degrees from where they were looking a moment at before.  So what are they looking at before they look at the Fortress?  Some other structure?  The Arctic Police driving off?  The last sunset they'll ever see as a couple?  I don't get it.

Keep in mind that with this cut, Donner was limited to what little footage exists.  He never had the opportunity to do any additional takes, rewrites, or reshoots; or to shoot missing scenes.  This isn't a final cut as much as it is a rough outline to what his movie might have been like.

The fact that he used screen-test footage for an unshot scene is testament to this.
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2006, 03:35:58 PM »

You raise an interesting point.  This is not really Superman: II as originally intended because even Superman:The Movie wasn't finished as originally intended!  Wonder how long it'll be before they go back and re-edit that one so we get a special-special-edition?
And, it's the same person who wasn't quite right for Superman II who made the decision on Superman I.  Donner's Superman II cut sorta starts out with how they'd wanted Superman I to end, but it's not nearly clear enough on that point.  The commentary would have benefitted from being more tightly scripted rather than off the cuff.

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What trucks?

Look at it again...the bit with the Arctic Police is only in the "Deleted Scenes" portion of the disc.  It does not survive Mr Thau's "final" cut.
Doh!  You're right.  I didn't notice, and I even know -why- I didn't notice now that I think about it.  I went to the deleted scenes before I watched the movie itself.  I'm used to that scene 'cause I've seen it before on TV.  Of course, a lot of people think the "arctic police" is equally lame. 

I know what it might have benefitted from -- comic-book style narrative.  A yellow rectangle appears at the top of the scene saying: "After putting Luthor and the Phantom Zone villains behind bars...".  In fact, this might have worked in a lot of places, minimized the Lester footage. 

Super-speed, senses, hypnosis, etc. makes all sorts of "Lois actively discovers his identity" scenarios preposterous, as tons of Silver Age comics will attest.  At least Lois struck me as a woman worth wanting around, rather than Lucy to Charlie Brown.  And blanks do actually have a projectile element to them...  it isn't as if they only make a sound.  And Superman's awareness and sensitivity to his physical invulnerability has been portrayed inconsistently at best.

 

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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2006, 04:21:20 PM »

New Article that will answer most of your questions!
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=95763
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 04:00:21 PM »

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Of course, a lot of people think the "arctic police" is equally lame.

Oh, I don't know.  I've heard those polar bears can get pretty rowdy on a Saturday night.  Who else is gonna break up the bar fights?

On the other hand, it's not much of a Fortress of "Solitude" if the cops are only a phone call away, and they know what address to show up at.

I did like that Supes blew the place up, though.  It makes sense, as Luthor's found it.  Would've prevented the return visit by Spacey-Luthor, anyway!  Plus it's an ugly structure at best, so good riddance...though I agree with Donner's commentary that his cinematographer did a whole lot neater stuff with it than Lester's.

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Gangbuster
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2007, 05:18:55 PM »

Not necessarily, since it never happened anyway (time reversal at the end.)

Thus, Spacey Luthor was able to return because the crystals were never destroyed or expended by Jor-El in the first place. 
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2007, 06:11:11 PM »

Why doesn't Superman timespin the earth a few years back and avoid that pesky business with him abandoning the earth so Lois could have his kid?  He could just keep on doing things until he does it right. 

Yes, it's Super-Groundhog Day, starring Bill Murray as Lex Luthor!


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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 07:52:29 PM »

Gangbuster writes:

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Not necessarily, since it never happened anyway (time reversal at the end.)

Thus, Spacey Luthor was able to return because the crystals were never destroyed or expended by Jor-El in the first place.

Yes, and Jor-El didn't "die"...making that whole "moving" scene between him and Superman pointless and meaningless.

Except...if Jor-El didn't die, then how did Superman get the power to reverse time?  But if he does reverse time, then how could Jor-El have died?  What a mess.

Another question is just how far back does Superman turn time?  Obviously back to before the villains escaped, but logically also before the missile drifted off into space, or else we'd just have to relive the whole mess over again.  So does he go back to before the missile was even fired, and simply catch Luthor before he pushes the button?  Apparently he's undoing the last movie as well as the second one.

And if he did indeed stop the missile, then everything after that would have happened differently.  So Luthor never went to the Fortress at all.  Which makes his trip there in Superman Returns his first trip, not his second...which actually helps that film a lot.

On the other hand, if the sex scene with Lois is undone, then the kid can't be Superman's.

Uncle Mxy asks:


Quote
Why doesn't Superman timespin the earth a few years back and avoid that pesky business with him abandoning the earth so Lois could have his kid?  He could just keep on doing things until he does it right.

Well, I'd imagine that would create some moral issues even for the morally challenged movie Superman.  It's one thing to take back a few minutes as he does in the first film.  Here he's taking back days and maybe weeks.  To fix the bit with Jason, he'd have to undo a whopping five years.  Over and above the question of whether he even COULD do it (how long would he have to fly at that speed?), there's also the issue of screwing with people's lives.  A lot of people are born and die in five years, a lot of things happen that change lives.  Who is Superman to monkey with billions of lives just to solve his own problems?  Indeed, who is he to do it in the Donner cut of Superman II, or even Superman I? 

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