The 12-year gap and the 5-year gap

[nightwing]

If the Salkinds are to be believed, then part of the 12-year gap wasn't spent in the fortress, but at college...the Superboy TV show. He had to get a journalism degree from somewhere...

Hmm...come to think of it, just because we see him go in as Jeff East and come out as Chris Reeve doesn't mean he actually never left during that whole 12 years.  He could always have taken Jor-El's lectures as a sort of night school, and led a normal life the rest of the time.  Maybe the Fortress is the North Pole equivalent of ECPI or the DeVry Institute. 

And for the record, Spiff, I wasn't slamming home schooling; my wife and I are doing it for our two boys.

[Spaceman Spiff]

And for the record, Spiff, I wasn't slamming home schooling; my wife and I are doing it for our two boys.

Glad to hear it! And I'm sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion. My wife and I are also home schooling our three kids.

The father that brought up and educated Superman is PA KENT.

Amen. In my mind this detail provides the answer to the question "Who is real -- Superman or Clark?" and the answer is BOTH. Due to his physiology, Kal-El could be nothing less than a superman on Earth. But the instruction and guidance of Jonathan and Martha Kent made him into something much more, a man. The Kents adopted Clark (yes, Clark!) in the fullest sense. They knew he was different, that he was from "somewhere else", but they also knew he was a child who needed parents. That he arrived in a rocket didn't make him any less theirs. He was the last son of Krypton, and the son of Jonathan and Martha. They loved him and raised him as their own, instilling their values into his life. The man -- Kal-El/Superman/Clark -- is formed by the confluence of Krypton and Smallville. The two parts of his heritage are inseparable, and both are essential.

Unfortunately, in Superman: The Movie Jor-El ignores Clark's upbringing on Earth. He tells Kal-El that he is not human and must not interfere in human affairs. Of couse, that's not right. Kal-El is just as human as anyone else from Smallville, and Clark is as Kryptonian as anyone else from Kryptonopolis.

[Aldous]

I seriously doubt that The Daily Planet would hire a reporter without a journalism degree....

I'm not so sure, Spaceman Spiff! I like to think of Perry White as just that old-fashioned sort of reporter, who worked his way up from copy boy to editor, that would be impressed by Clark Nobody Kent bringing in an impressive scoop and hiring him on the spot. I really do think Perry would look sideways at "degrees" and other such nonsense not of the real world.

[Aldous]

The father that brought up and educated Superman is PA KENT.

Amen. In my mind this detail provides the answer to the question "Who is real -- Superman or Clark?" and the answer is BOTH. Due to his physiology, Kal-El could be nothing less than a superman on Earth. But the instruction and guidance of Jonathan and Martha Kent made him into something much more, a man. The Kents adopted Clark (yes, Clark!) in the fullest sense. They knew he was different, that he was from "somewhere else", but they also knew he was a child who needed parents. That he arrived in a rocket didn't make him any less theirs. He was the last son of Krypton, and the son of Jonathan and Martha. They loved him and raised him as their own, instilling their values into his life. The man -- Kal-El/Superman/Clark -- is formed by the confluence of Krypton and Smallville. The two parts of his heritage are inseparable, and both are essential.

Unfortunately, in Superman: The Movie Jor-El ignores Clark's upbringing on Earth. He tells Kal-El that he is not human and must not interfere in human affairs. Of couse, that's not right. Kal-El is just as human as anyone else from Smallville, and Clark is as Kryptonian as anyone else from Kryptonopolis.

It's very nice to hear from someone who understands Superman.

[Uncle Mxy]

Unfortunately, in Superman: The Movie Jor-El ignores Clark's upbringing on Earth. He tells Kal-El that he is not human and must not interfere in human affairs. Of couse, that's not right. Kal-El is just as human as anyone else from Smallville, and Clark is as Kryptonian as anyone else from Kryptonopolis.

Do you think Jor-El was expecting that anyone besides him would really "raise" his son?  One of the things I loved about Maggin's LSOK novel was that Jor-El was thinking about just who should raise his child, which wasn't something talked about very much in the comics.  It was largely "my kid will be ok -- he'll be super after all". 

And Jor-El's "it is forbidden..." lines came across to me as more "lead by example, not by imposing your powers on the world" which seems like a reasonable sentiment.  Maggin's "Must There Be A Superman?" covered a very similar theme. 

[Gangbuster]

I seriously doubt that The Daily Planet would hire a reporter without a journalism degree....

I'm not so sure, Spaceman Spiff! I like to think of Perry White as just that old-fashioned sort of reporter, who worked his way up from copy boy to editor, that would be impressed by Clark Nobody Kent bringing in an impressive scoop and hiring him on the spot. I really do think Perry would look sideways at "degrees" and other such nonsense not of the real world.

During the depression, yes. In 2006, no. The Daily Planet is our equivalent of the New York Times, and if you go up to the New York Times without qualifications, especially with the problems they've had...it's not going to happen. Clark had to have gone to college somewhere.

[nightwing]

And Jor-El's "it is forbidden..." lines came across to me as more "lead by example, not by imposing your powers on the world" which seems like a reasonable sentiment.  Maggin's "Must There Be A Superman?" covered a very similar theme.

Well, that's one take on it, but Spiff's is equally valid.

You could make the argument that every time Superman saves someone from a car crash, a hurricane or whatever he's tampering with the course of human events.  If he weren't around, those people would die, just as they do in our world without a Superman.

Let's say Superman has a chance to save President Kennedy at Dealy Plaza.  Should he do it?  Sure, he's Superman.  But if he does, he's changed history, hasn't he?  That's an obvious example, but who's to say what the "average joe" might mean to the time stream?  Maybe the kid Superman saves from a crashing school bus today will be President in 30 years.  Maybe the guy he saves from a house fire will go on to murder a man who could have cured cancer.

As far as I'm concerned, either Jor-El is a fool who takes both sides of the argument (help them, but don't make a difference!) or Superman is disobeying his dad every time he performs a super-rescue.

I like Brando as much as the next guy, but this whole "father-son" thing in the films is a bad idea.

[crispy snax]

i think the whole 12 year gap thing is a bit of a mistake, it sort of dehumanises superman, like in the orginal radio show, when superman comes to earth as an adult and then takes on the "disguise" of clark kent..

... thats not superman, thats the martian manhunter