TELLE
Supermanica Council
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2007, 07:33:21 PM » |
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Everything you ever wanted to know about the classic Superman: SupermanicaThe Encyclopedia of Supermanic Biography! (temporarily offline) |
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Aldous
Superman Squad
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2007, 07:43:10 PM » |
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Super Monkey, you have to let this one go. He's a super-hero, and I haven't seen anything in this thread that takes the subject title away from Logan, except maybe those turtles.
It doesn't make a bit of difference what a website says. (Maybe you get too much info from the internet.) My opinion is my own and it comes from reading the Uncanny X-Men comics when Logan was part of a super-hero group.
It also makes no difference how Marvel markets him. Coca-Cola marketed their drink as a health food for years, but is it? Drink the drink and read the comics, then get back to me.
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Great Rao
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 09:18:16 PM » |
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It really depends on your definition of Superhero. From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004:
"A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime."
I haven't read enough Wolverine stories to know whether or not he fights any evil or any crime.
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"The bottom line involves choices. Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever. Good or evil, they are bound to choose. And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us. As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose. If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be? As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer." - Jack Kirby
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 11:40:16 PM » |
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Turns out his name isn't even really Logan!
I am not a fan of him or the X-Men for that matter, I never did like them or Spiderman! LOL, it's true. I will be willing to say that since you have read far more books with that property than I, that I suppose that he could be look upon as a hero in some fan's eyes.
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"I loved Super-Monkey; always wanted to do something with him but it never happened."
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Aldous
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2007, 11:58:18 PM » |
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It really depends on your definition of Superhero. From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004:
"A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime."
I haven't read enough Wolverine stories to know whether or not he fights any evil or any crime.
In addition, one of the main things to look for (that you can hardly miss) is the costume (eg. Superman, Batman, etc.) or the uniform (eg. Fantastic Four, X-Men). Any of the elements alone are not enough. It's not an exact science, is it, but you can see that Steve Austin and Gemini Man are not super-heroes, but other characters with the same abilities (ie. cyborg strength and invisibility respectively) are super-heroes, maybe because of the costumes and other elements that add up to something more than "secret agent". |
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Aldous
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2007, 12:12:10 AM » |
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Turns out his name isn't even really Logan! Well, no, I don't suppose it is. Although, I will always think of him as Logan. I was a big fan of the character when I collected "Uncanny X-Men". I never liked him solo. I didn't even like the '82 miniseries -- mainly because I hated the art, admittedly. Since the 90s ushered in X-Everything, and all the solo Wolvie stuff -- gah... I have my "Uncanny" collection wherein he was at his best. I actually stopped buying Marvel cold at the start of the 90s when they brought out the X-Men 1 comic with four or five different covers on the stand. In fact, I stopped buying new comics altogether. I found it almost impossible to find a good comic amongst all the collectors' editions, number ones, and must-haves. |
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TELLE
Supermanica Council
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 02:44:38 AM » |
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This is always fascinating to me: what defines a superhero?
Talking points: Peter Coogan's new book Superhero, secret Origin of a Genre makes a few interesting assertions.
A. Coogan distinguishes between superheroes (ie, Superman) and "heroes who are super" (Gilgamesh).
B. All superheroes must have the following 3 elements:
1. Prosocial Mission
2. SuperPowers - abilities beyond those of ordinary humans
3. Identity - a costume and codename
Wolvie, in his various incarnations, conforms to all 3. The one that we might quibble about is #1 but the character has acted selflessly in many comics and worked for the greater good as an x-men, etc. The fact that he kills people (like early Superman?) is not something that really affects the definition. He doesn't always wear a costume but it is still there (is Superman not a superhero when he save someone with his superbreath while working as Clark Kent?). The Wolvie of the movies qualifies, at least.
My own definition might even leave out #1 by which I mean, if it looks like a superhero it is a superhero. And some great superheroes in my opinion, have no powers (and I don't mean Batman-types --more like Uncle Marvel).
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 02:47:19 AM by TELLE »
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Everything you ever wanted to know about the classic Superman: SupermanicaThe Encyclopedia of Supermanic Biography! (temporarily offline) |
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Aldous
Superman Squad
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2007, 04:21:38 AM » |
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This is always fascinating to me: what defines a superhero?
Talking points: Peter Coogan's new book Superhero, secret Origin of a Genre makes a few interesting assertions.
A. Coogan distinguishes between superheroes (ie, Superman) and "heroes who are super" (Gilgamesh).
B. All superheroes must have the following 3 elements:
1. Prosocial Mission
2. SuperPowers - abilities beyond those of ordinary humans
3. Identity - a costume and codename
Wolvie, in his various incarnations, conforms to all 3. The one that we might quibble about is #1 but the character has acted selflessly in many comics and worked for the greater good as an x-men, etc. The fact that he kills people (like early Superman?) is not something that really affects the definition. He doesn't always wear a costume but it is still there (is Superman not a superhero when he save someone with his superbreath while working as Clark Kent?). The Wolvie of the movies qualifies, at least.
My own definition might even leave out #1 by which I mean, if it looks like a superhero it is a superhero. And some great superheroes in my opinion, have no powers (and I don't mean Batman-types --more like Uncle Marvel).
Maybe 2. SuperPowers - abilities beyond those of ordinary humans should read 2. Abilities beyond those of ordinary humans because there are so many super-types without super powers. Is Blackhawk a super-hero? Seems like it, but you can't be sure. Is Batman? Yes -- but he hasn't any super powers. I might keep # 1 and leave out # 2. I agree it's fascinating. Characters like The Punisher are a problem too. It's only a feeling, but I wouldn't be able to put my finger on why he isn't a super-hero. Super Monkey's aversion to killing doesn't help, because a few of the Golden Age greats were killers, eg. Hangman, and this is in the heyday of the super-hero. The fact Logan kills is not hard to swallow... What other purpose could those claws possibly serve? They're for killing. That doesn't change his mission statement. |
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