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Author Topic: Characters that have yet to get a "definitive" movie treatment?  (Read 23138 times)
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2007, 09:39:43 AM »

The more I think about it, the more I absolutely love DAREDEVIL, and it's all for the cast. Bullseye is the greatest villain ever - he has a wonderful, very twisted sense of humor and he's successful in stealing the film. The "you're good babe, but me, I'm magic" scene was great because it was so unexpected. Michael Clark Duncan plays the Kingpin, but like Cathy Bates in TITANIC, he realized what an over the top film it all is, and he appropriately hammed it up.

It's strange, but DAREDEVIL actually may be the single most romantic superhero movie ever. Matt Murdoch is a doomed, cynical man who is staggeringly cold, that's ultimately redeemed and saved by Electra and the power of love. The "love story" isn't tacked on as an aside, it's the core of the story and what makes the character likable. I was suspicious of the casting of a movie star like "Ben Whoffleck" as a superhero, but it works because of the radioactive chemistry between Ben and Jen. both their characters are isolated, and Matt's in a world of utter darkness.

Like, SKY CAPTAIN, it isn't the special effects that made this picture, it's the cute little bits like Giovanni Ribisi chewing gum and reading comics. Likewise, with DAREDEVIL, the movie was made by the heart-in-a-blender scene where Matt uses raindrops to see Electra for the first time.

Even the aforementioned playground fight isn't quite as goofy as it sounds because the actors have such a great exchange that the fight becomes a weird kind of foreplay. It's funny, I've never thought much of Ben or Jen Gardner, but together on screen they managed to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Quote from: Criadoman
1. Regarding Flash Gordon - strangely all the basic elements were there though - although the acting was mediocre in the main, by Van Sindow and Dalton as well as the Vultan actor managed to keep things together.  The movie was a bit psychadelic, a la Barberella, but, still it was a charming flick.  I could still use a nice epic version of the piece.

I love the Flash Gordon movie, but the Filmation cartoon series (which JUST came out on DVD! Yeah, baby!) did it way better.

Man, Sam Jones trying hard to hide his Southern accent is almost as unintentionally funny as the Estonian chick trying to be the All-American Girl in the Mistie favorite, WERE-WILF. He sure did deserve that Raspberry Award, that's for sure.

But I gotta disagree they got everything right. Flash Gordon as a football playing meathead? Flash Gordon in the comics was a Polo Player, an educated, WASP-ish Ivy League aristocrat, a characterization Buster Crabbe used in a very subtle way. Flash is something of an idealist and humanitarian, and if he lived today would probably be in the Peace Corps. In conclusion, Flash Gordon is much more like Jack from LOST than Terry Bradshaw.

And while Topol is one of my top five favorite actors of all time, he was totally wrong for Dr. Hans Zarkoff. Zarkoff, in the comics was a rugged, tough guy that whlle he is a great scientist, he always gave a Hemingway-esque vibe as a guy at home on the docks pounding drinks and getting into barfights. Topol, bless him, is not a tough guy. What was Robert Culp doing that year? He would be a great Zarkoff.

FLASH GORDON reminds me exactly why it is that when they do movie versions of older characters, they make the hero's girlfriend a gutsy asskicker, because the alternative is Melody Anderson in this. Heck, even Willie from TEMPLE OF DOOM had a couple funny moments.

Remember in THE PRODUCERS where they cast the flamingly gay director as Hitler, and the play becomes a hit because people assume it's camp instead of bad taste? I get a definite feeling Sam Jones was intentionally playing Flash as gay for the camp value. From the football scene that looked more a tickle fight, or the numerous bondage scenes, or the zero chemistry with him and any other woman in the film, or the tank top shirt...

Then again, even a gay guy would prefer the mindblowingly sexy Italian Ornella Muti over whatshername. Beard alert!

I absolutely love the weird psychadelia of the film, and its bright colors. And it may have the greatest musical score of all time, by Queen, the greatest band in human history. Freddy Mercury could belt out the phone book and it would be righteously rockin', but have him cry out triumphant, hair-metal-ish lines like "No one but the pure in heart will find the Golden Grail" skyrockets the soundtrack to greatness.

Quote from: Kuuga
I'm glad they didn't have the snap. Very glad.

I don't know about that. Mary Jane was vanilla when she wasn't downright annoying, yet for some reason Parker's in love with her and thinks she's marvelous. If the writer of the script was a woman, I'd assume MJ was a Mary Sue avatar.

I agree with Criadoman that they merged MJ with Gwen, but they failed to learn the lesson the comics did: the reason they killed Gwen off in the first place was because she was just plain boring. She was Melody Anderson to Mary Jane's Ornella Muti, far less sexy and vivacious. If Gwen lived, she'd be just another Ex-Spider-Girlfriend, like Liz Allen and Betty Brant. But she died, an act that made her something else entirely, worthy of the last issue of MARVELS.

I said this before: the only reason anybody cares about Gwen today is because she died.

Same thing with Captain Marvel: he's one death that should never be undone, because alive, Cap'd be just another space hero trotted out for a cameo in space stories like Thanos War. But his death, and of cancer no less, elevates him to a different status altogether. People remember Captain Marvel because he died, and that may be the greatest gift that Jim Starlin, or any writer for that matter, can give a character.

Quote from: Criadoman
Similar point, Kypton of the movie is a cold, "authortarian-by-council" society vs. the technological utopia of the comics of the time.  I could argue comic Krypton is integral to Superman, but distilled to a nutshell, it's irrelevant.  It's simply not key. 

I wouldn't call it so much cold, as I would call it "big" and "biblical." The Kryptonians talk like characters in Bible movies. Charleton Heston would make a great Jor-El. Unlike Nightwing, I was very excited about the possibility of seeing Krypton again in SUPERMAN RETURNS, because they didn't really get it right the first time: except for the cool glowing pajamas, it all looked so very cheap.
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« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2007, 04:56:29 PM »

The more I think about it, the more I absolutely love DAREDEVIL, and it's all for the cast. Bullseye is the greatest villain ever - he has a wonderful, very twisted sense of humor and he's successful in stealing the film. The "you're good babe, but me, I'm magic" scene was great because it was so unexpected. Michael Clark Duncan plays the Kingpin, but like Cathy Bates in TITANIC, he realized what an over the top film it all is, and he appropriately hammed it up.

It's strange, but DAREDEVIL actually may be the single most romantic superhero movie ever. Matt Murdoch is a doomed, cynical man who is staggeringly cold, that's ultimately redeemed and saved by Electra and the power of love. The "love story" isn't tacked on as an aside, it's the core of the story and what makes the character likable. I was suspicious of the casting of a movie star like "Ben Whoffleck" as a superhero, but it works because of the radioactive chemistry between Ben and Jen. both their characters are isolated, and Matt's in a world of utter darkness.

Like, SKY CAPTAIN, it isn't the special effects that made this picture, it's the cute little bits like Giovanni Ribisi chewing gum and reading comics. Likewise, with DAREDEVIL, the movie was made by the heart-in-a-blender scene where Matt uses raindrops to see Electra for the first time.

Agreed.  There were little tidbits throughout the film made this movie worth it to me any day.

Even the aforementioned playground fight isn't quite as goofy as it sounds because the actors have such a great exchange that the fight becomes a weird kind of foreplay. It's funny, I've never thought much of Ben or Jen Gardner, but together on screen they managed to be greater than the sum of their parts.

I liked that part, but admittedly there was a slight "wince factor" for me.  I've never been terribly big on super-heros blatantly using their abilities like that, in "normal identity" and in view of many people (even if it was just kids).  But, it was enjoyable enough.

Quote from: Criadoman
1. Regarding Flash Gordon - strangely all the basic elements were there though - although the acting was mediocre in the main, but Van Sindow and Dalton as well as the Vultan actor managed to keep things together.  The movie was a bit psychadelic, a la Barberella, but, still it was a charming flick.  I could still use a nice epic version of the piece.

I love the Flash Gordon movie, but the Filmation cartoon series (which JUST came out on DVD! Yeah, baby!) did it way better.

Agreed again!  The Filmation version is one of my all-time favorite cartoons (ranking up there with the Fleisher Superman series from the 40's).  There was a time when Filmation was so incredible - it was something.  I remember before the Saturday morning series, they played it on prime-time on NBC.  Phenomenal, from everything from the art work, to the 1930's style ships; it was just incredible.

Also, I liked Dalton much better in this flick than the Rocketeer (another great flick).

Man, Sam Jones trying hard to hide his Southern accent is almost as unintentionally funny as the Estonian chick trying to be the All-American Girl in the Mistie favorite, WERE-WILF. He sure did deserve that Raspberry Award, that's for sure.

I disagree here.  I thought for the movie, Sam was just fine.  Cheesy - but fine for this movie.

But I gotta disagree they got everything right. Flash Gordon as a football playing meathead? Flash Gordon in the comics was a Polo Player, an educated, WASP-ish Ivy League aristocrat, a characterization Buster Crabbe used in a very subtle way. Flash is something of an idealist and humanitarian, and if he lived today would probably be in the Peace Corps. In conclusion, Flash Gordon is much more like Jack from LOST than Terry Bradshaw.

Well, I believe they got everything right to it's irreducible minimums, or the absolute minimum they could get away with to call it "Flash Gordon", contrarily to the 1998 Godzilla which by any other name could have been called "The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms". 

Even a football playing "meathead" (as written by the movie writer or portrayed by the director) put in a position like this might respond accordingly - maybe not for the alturistic goals that I think Flash would really likely have, but at minimumly for glory and the game, the team being "Earth".  I know and am friends with some pretty high up football "meatheads" personally who either coached the NCAA or played ball professionally in the NFL.  "Meathead" wouldn't even be on my list of descriptive terms for these guys.  "Intelligent", "caring" and "interested in others' welfare" would be 3 of my 1st terms.  They didn't have to make him a meathead because he's a ball player.  But still, it is fortunate that that "meathead" isn't played up more in the movie.  On a slightly similar note - one of the funnier parts of the flick was when he had a telepathic rapport with Dale and Aurora starts messing with him - and he thinks how hot she was.  Dale telling him she didn't get that last though was funny.  Aurora was a babe!!!  However, in the middle of circumstances such as he was in, sex wouldn't be the 1st thing on my mind.

It's rather interesting that even the more recent DC take on the character was a basketball player - although I did like their take on Ming, and Mongo.  The series would work a lot better as a Vertigo title IMO, and to really get into the adult themes. 

However, I guess "polo" = "sports" = "popular sports" = "football" = "basketball".  "Class", "honor" and "equestrian" are more important to me for Flash than "sports". 

And while Topol is one of my top five favorite actors of all time, he was totally wrong for Dr. Hans Zarkoff. Zarkoff, in the comics was a rugged, tough guy that whlle he is a great scientist, he always gave a Hemingway-esque vibe as a guy at home on the docks pounding drinks and getting into barfights. Topol, bless him, is not a tough guy. What was Robert Culp doing that year? He would be a great Zarkoff.

Agreed.  He took a lot of getting used too.

FLASH GORDON reminds me exactly why it is that when they do movie versions of older characters, they make the hero's girlfriend a gutsy asskicker, because the alternative is Melody Anderson in this. Heck, even Willie from TEMPLE OF DOOM had a couple funny moments.

Remember in THE PRODUCERS where they cast the flamingly gay director as Hitler, and the play becomes a hit because people assume it's camp instead of bad taste? I get a definite feeling Sam Jones was intentionally playing Flash as gay for the camp value. From the football scene that looked more a tickle fight, or the numerous bondage scenes, or the zero chemistry with him and any other woman in the film, or the tank top shirt...

Then again, even a gay guy would prefer the mindblowingly sexy Italian Ornella Muti over whatshername. Beard alert!

I hadn't thought of that before.  Now that I think about it, there was that sub-text in the film.  Funny.

I absolutely love the weird psychadelia of the film, and its bright colors. And it may have the greatest musical score of all time, by Queen, the greatest band in human history. Freddy Mercury could belt out the phone book and it would be righteously rockin', but have him cry out triumphant, hair-metal-ish lines like "No one but the pure in heart will find the Golden Grail" skyrockets the soundtrack to greatness.

It is those qualities that endeared the film to me.  Queen absolutely rocks, and I can't think of a more perfect choice to that film.  But, good heavy metal generally has that epic quality to me.  Like Sabbath, Dio and Priest - there's often times a little sci-fi and apocolyptic edge to the music, and it does work on a level.

Quote from: Kuuga
I'm glad they didn't have the snap. Very glad.
I don't know about that. Mary Jane was vanilla when she wasn't downright annoying, yet for some reason Parker's in love with her and thinks she's marvelous. If the writer of the script was a woman, I'd assume MJ was a Mary Sue avatar.

I agree with Criadoman that they merged MJ with Gwen, but they failed to learn the lesson the comics did: the reason they killed Gwen off in the first place was because she was just plain boring. She was Melody Anderson to Mary Jane's Ornella Muti, far less sexy and vivacious. If Gwen lived, she'd be just another Ex-Spider-Girlfriend, like Liz Allen and Betty Brant. But she died, an act that made her something else entirely, worthy of the last issue of MARVELS.

I said this before: the only reason anybody cares about Gwen today is because she died.

Same thing with Captain Marvel: he's one death that should never be undone, because alive, Cap'd be just another space hero trotted out for a cameo in space stories like Thanos War. But his death, and of cancer no less, elevates him to a different status altogether. People remember Captain Marvel because he died, and that may be the greatest gift that Jim Starlin, or any writer for that matter, can give a character.

Agreed, agreed, agreed!!!  Don't get me started on this point!  Outside of just plain shock value type stories (a la imaginary stories or the infamous Superman death story) - a dead character should stay dead if the story was intended to kill them.  Phoenix was intended to die for a reason.  Jason Todd was intended to die for a reason (albeit rather shoddy one), etc.

Quote from: Criadoman
Similar point, Krypton of the movie is a cold, "authortarian-by-council" society vs. the technological utopia of the comics of the time.  I could argue comic Krypton is integral to Superman, but distilled to a nutshell, it's irrelevant.  It's simply not key. 

I wouldn't call it so much cold, as I would call it "big" and "biblical." The Kryptonians talk like characters in Bible movies. Charleton Heston would make a great Jor-El. Unlike Nightwing, I was very excited about the possibility of seeing Krypton again in SUPERMAN RETURNS, because they didn't really get it right the first time: except for the cool glowing pajamas, it all looked so very cheap.

What little we did see of Krypton in the trailers did get me pretty excited.  darn the cutting room!!!  Bring me the cut footage Singer!!!!

I would have appreciated a little "George Lucas used universe" philosophy here.  This and the cheap quality is probably what gave me the cold impression, as I certainly got nothing biblical out of this.  But, now that you mention it - and I'm not too thrilled for having seen it now (the biblical quality of Krypton) - a white crystalline Krypton could be likened to a version of "Heaven", with Zod and his minions being "cast out" into hell.  I would have been more inclined to a utopian society that you would have really been bummed that got destroyed.

Still, I see the Byrne's Krypton pretty much the same as I do the movie one - cold, desolate and sterile.  I took their talking as highly intelligent more than biblical, not that I can't see the comparison here.  However, the main characters in biblical flicks that I can recall in the early days of epic biblical films were also ruling class type people who in turn are or were expected to be highly intelligent.  Let us not forget that once, intelligence, science and religion were much the same thing for a long time - particularly during the Egyptian, Babalon, Greecian and even Roman days, as well as the Asian and eastern cultures.  In the west, it was mainly during the last days of Rome into the middle ages and forward that things start splitting severely. 

As an anecdote, did you know that alchemy was never originally the "science" of turning lead to gold, but rather the attempt to convert the lead of the human body into the gold of the human spirit?  Interesting stuff, religious history.

Anyway, once again Julian, your thoughts and observations are rather thought provoking and it is fun to have these discussions with you.  Now I'd better get back to work on K-Metal or Rao might cast me out into the "Zone". (Ha ha)
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2007, 07:45:25 PM »

Quote from: Criadoman
Agreed.  There were little tidbits throughout the film made this movie worth it to me any day.

You can judge how successful a "love story" subplot is by how important it is to the rest of the movie.

If the story would be the same whether the love story is there or not (e.g. THE MUMMY, TOTAL RECALL) it's really not worth doing.

By that standard, the love story in DAREDEVIL is well done because it gets to the core of the character: a dark, cold guy that is redeemed by love, who in the end spares the Kingpin when previously he was merciless. The plot twists are all centered on the Electra/Daredevil relationship.

Quote from: Criadoman
I liked that part, but admittedly there was a slight "wince factor" for me.  I've never been terribly big on super-heros blatantly using their abilities like that, in "normal identity" and in view of many people (even if it was just kids).  But, it was enjoyable enough.

The playground fight reminds me a lot of the fights in THE PRINCESS BRIDE, where violence is almost playful. I expected Matt Murdock to say something like, "I'm really left-handed."

Quote from: Criadoman
Agreed again!  The Filmation version is one of my all-time favorite cartoons (ranking up there with the Fleisher Superman series from the 40's).  There was a time when Filmation was so incredible - it was something.  I remember before the Saturday morning series, they played it on prime-time on NBC.  Phenomenal, from everything from the art work, to the 1930's style ships; it was just incredible.

Also, I liked Dalton much better in this flick than the Rocketeer (another great flick).

Boy, you sure said a mouthful. My all-time favorite was the Filmation Tarzan cartoon - which may be the best time that La was ever presented on screen. Or maybe I'm just saying that because of how crazy I am for Oparian gorillas with helmets and spears.

Then you have their forgotten gem, BLACKSTAR - which is about a black version of He-Man. The kicker is, Blackstar actually came FIRST, though his show only lasted for several episodes (and Blackstar's sorceress girlfriend, and his enemy, the Overlord, were actually played by the same voice actors as Teela and Skeletor). Watching BLACKSTAR is like listening to the original black singers sing the tunes Elvis made famous.

The best thing about Filmation is how wonderfully detailed their backgrounds are. The best was the Kukulkan story in the STAR TREK animated series, where there was this astonishing ancient Mesoamerican city that Kirk and his lackeys beamed into. It's so detailed it had to be seen to be believed.

Quote from: Criadoman
Even a football playing "meathead" (as written by the movie writer or portrayed by the director) put in a position like this might respond accordingly - maybe not for the alturistic goals that I think Flash would really likely have, but at minimumly for glory and the game, the team being "Earth". 

I didn't mean to generalize about all footballers or athletes, but my point here is this: what sport Flash plays isn't a little or cosmetic detail. Having Flash be a footballer implies a totally different characterization.

Having Flash be a polo player implies a lot of things: aristocracy, gentlemanly conduct, WASPishness, New England upbringing, etc. Football, on the other hand, implies other things: more humble beginnings, etc. Bruce Wayne plays polo. Ben Grimm played football.

Quote from: Criadoman
It's rather interesting that even the more recent DC take on the character was a basketball player - although I did like their take on Ming, and Mongo. 

One thing I did like about that series was how it had the Mongites be blue. There was always something vaguely racist and Oriental about Ming the Merciless, with him as Fu Manchu and his daughter as a cross between Barbie the Barbarian and the Dragon Lady. Having them be blue deflects racism, and also has a very neat Edgar Rice Burroughs-esque vibe.

This is also what Kiwi Pete Jackson did with KING KONG and the Skull Island tribesmen; incidentally, did they remind anybody else of Robert E. Howard's Picts?

Man, the FLASH GORDON cast was a miniature U.N. You had Israeli Topol, English Timothy Dalton and Brian Blessed, Swedish Max von Sydow, Italian Ornella Muti, and Americans like Sam Jones.

Quote from: Criadoman
The series would work a lot better as a Vertigo title IMO, and to really get into the adult themes. 

Hmm, you might be on to something here. It's no coincidence there have been many porno versions of Flash Gordon. It has a kind of 1001 ARABIAN NIGHTS-style barbaric, exotic sexuality about the entire concept.

Quote from: Criadoman
Agreed, agreed, agreed!!!  Don't get me started on this point!  Outside of just plain shock value type stories (a la imaginary stories or the infamous Superman death story) - a dead character should stay dead if the story was intended to kill them.  Phoenix was intended to die for a reason.  Jason Todd was intended to die for a reason (albeit rather shoddy one), etc.

Some people are really hard-assed about character death, saying dead means dead always without exceptions. I'm a bit more flexible, and I think it all depends.. Some dead characters can be brought back to life, and some dead characters shouldn't: it all depends on the character, the hows and whys of their death, and the kind of comic they're in.

An example of what I mean is someone like the original Swordsman; his story, his arc is finished; there's no REASON to bring him back. The Swordsman's death fit his character.

Then again, you have someone like Hal Jordan or Patsy Walker. One can argue that it wasn't wrong for them to be brought back because they shouldn't have died in the first place; the circumstances of their deaths were unsatisfying or out of character. Bringing them back would be correcting a mistake.

Then again, I'd be a lot less accepting of characters returning from the dead in a comic like LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, TEEN TITANS, or X-MEN, because part of the thing that makes reading a team comic like that unique is that you see characters in books like this get older; they are allowed to develop and feel "real" and that includes, sometimes, death.

Quote from: Criadoman
I would have appreciated a little "George Lucas used universe" philosophy here.

Though I am much more of a fan of the original trilogy by an order of magnitude...I have to admit, as heretical as it sounds, the art decoration and design of the second batch of flicks appeals to me a lot more: the swept-back fighter ships that look like something out of ASTOUNDING SCIENCE FICTION, the chrome, sleek Queen's spaceship, the giant Hugo Gernsback-esque city-planet...as much as I loved the original WARS movies, the inside of the Millennium Falcon always resembled the A.V. room at my high school.

Quote from: Criadoman
As an anecdote, did you know that alchemy was never originally the "science" of turning lead to gold, but rather the attempt to convert the lead of the human body into the gold of the human spirit?  Interesting stuff, religious history.

All this is interesting stuff. The Jewish/Rabbinical traditions' contributions to Alchemy also are pretty interesting. Metal as metaphor for spirit can be found in the layout of the Temple of Solomon: interestingly enough, the innermost sanctum's table was made of copper instead of gold or silver. And the majority of equipment used in Alchemy was invented by a Jewish woman in Alexandria in the first millennium.

Quote from: Criadoman
Anyway, once again Julian, your thoughts and observations are rather thought provoking and it is fun to have these discussions with you.

You only say that because you haven't heard me mouth off about Grant Morrison.  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2007, 08:38:09 PM »

Unfortunately, I hate the Daredevil film so much that I can't even read your posts, Julian. It used all the elements that Miller brought to the character and killed them for no reason. Ben Urich, for instance, is the easiest character to write in the world, so they gave him a beret and about twenty years younger than he should have been. Bullseye is not Irish. The Elektra subplot was silly. And yet, the actors in the film were perfect: Ben Affleck is a great Matt Murdock, and thingamajig is a great Elektra, and whatsisname is a really great Kingpin (in fact, the interpretation of the Kingpin was great). They had all that, and they blew it for no reason.
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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2007, 06:53:38 AM »

The playground fight reminds me a lot of the fights in THE PRINCESS BRIDE, where violence is almost playful. I expected Matt Murdock to say something like, "I'm really left-handed."
I loved that movie!

Boy, you sure said a mouthful. My all-time favorite was the Filmation Tarzan cartoon - which may be the best time that La was ever presented on screen. Or maybe I'm just saying that because of how crazy I am for Oparian gorillas with helmets and spears.

Boy - did you just bring back a flood of memories!  These are the shows I watched immediately after the Superfriends.  I'm feeling sorry for my kids right now.  We grew up with some of the niftiest cartoons.  Tarzan was incredible.  I loved Zorro and the Lone Ranger.  Then the Batman 'toon!  I used to get so mad that Filmation didn't do a more recent Superman 'toon.  How wonderful would that have been?  The animation would have been so on par with the old Fleisher stuff.  Good stuff!!!

The best thing about Filmation is how wonderfully detailed their backgrounds are. The best was the Kukulkan story in the STAR TREK animated series, where there was this astonishing ancient Mesoamerican city that Kirk and his lackeys beamed into. It's so detailed it had to be seen to be believed.

Their backgrounds were stunning, but it was their in-between work that I was most impressed with.  Although often you'd get the same motion sequence (Tarzan jumping, swimming; He-Man jumping) - they did so many more in-between images that the motion just flowed vs. the slight choppyness of 'toons today (unless computer animated or made by Disney).  The quality of product was phenomenal.

Having Flash be a polo player implies a lot of things: aristocracy, gentlemanly conduct, WASPishness, New England upbringing, etc. Football, on the other hand, implies other things: more humble beginnings, etc. Bruce Wayne plays polo. Ben Grimm played football.

I see your point. 

One thing I did like about that series [Flash Gordon DCU maxi] was how it had the Mongites be blue. There was always something vaguely racist and Oriental about Ming the Merciless, with him as Fu Manchu and his daughter as a cross between Barbie the Barbarian and the Dragon Lady. Having them be blue deflects racism, and also has a very neat Edgar Rice Burroughs-esque vibe.

This is also what Kiwi Pete Jackson did with KING KONG and the Skull Island tribesmen; incidentally, did they remind anybody else of Robert E. Howard's Picts?

Man, the FLASH GORDON cast was a miniature U.N. You had Israeli Topol, English Timothy Dalton and Brian Blessed, Swedish Max von Sydow, Italian Ornella Muti, and Americans like Sam Jones.

Dan Jurgens was the artist - which I thought was kinda interesting.  It's worth reading when you can get your hands on it.

Yup - Skull Island had Frazetta written all over it.

And, on the movie, the international cast was actually another very charming aspect of the flick to me.

Hmm, you might be on to something here. It's no coincidence there have been many porno versions of Flash Gordon. It has a kind of 1001 ARABIAN NIGHTS-style barbaric, exotic sexuality about the entire concept.

Wow - how could I forget the infamous name "Flesh Gordon"?  Whatever.

I would think if one could get away with it, one could have a lot of fun "maturing" Flash and co.  Go ahead and have fun in a barrierless medium.  Heck, even Batman went mature in Dark Knight - and look where he ended up.

Some people are really hard-assed about character death, saying dead means dead always without exceptions. I'm a bit more flexible, and I think it all depends.. Some dead characters can be brought back to life, and some dead characters shouldn't: it all depends on the character, the hows and whys of their death, and the kind of comic they're in.

An example of what I mean is someone like the original Swordsman; his story, his arc is finished; there's no REASON to bring him back. The Swordsman's death fit his character.

Then again, you have someone like Hal Jordan or Patsy Walker. One can argue that it wasn't wrong for them to be brought back because they shouldn't have died in the first place; the circumstances of their deaths were unsatisfying or out of character. Bringing them back would be correcting a mistake.

Then again, I'd be a lot less accepting of characters returning from the dead in a comic like LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, TEEN TITANS, or X-MEN, because part of the thing that makes reading a team comic like that unique is that you see characters in books like this get older; they are allowed to develop and feel "real" and that includes, sometimes, death.

Yup.  Why bring back Bucky?  Bucky's accident actually really made me feel for Cap.  I'm surprised Jarella isn't back yet at the rate we're going in Marvel resurrection land.

Though I am much more of a fan of the original trilogy by an order of magnitude...I have to admit, as heretical as it sounds, the art decoration and design of the second batch of flicks appeals to me a lot more: the swept-back fighter ships that look like something out of ASTOUNDING SCIENCE FICTION, the chrome, sleek Queen's spaceship, the giant Hugo Gernsback-esque city-planet...as much as I loved the original WARS movies, the inside of the Millennium Falcon always resembled the A.V. room at my high school.
I think George actually had money to invest on such things in the 2nd trilogy.   Cheesy
But - the fact is that Mr. Campbell's wonderful pulp mag was quite likely one of the actual sources of the ships we see in our wonderful Flash Gordon strips, and Buck Rogers, and our own tiny little infant from Krypton.  I love that style of ship.


All this is interesting stuff. The Jewish/Rabbinical traditions' contributions to Alchemy also are pretty interesting. Metal as metaphor for spirit can be found in the layout of the Temple of Solomon: interestingly enough, the innermost sanctum's table was made of copper instead of gold or silver. And the majority of equipment used in Alchemy was invented by a Jewish woman in Alexandria in the first millennium.

Just goes to show, kids, know your history!

You only say that because you haven't heard me mouth off about Grant Morrison.  Grin
Who's Grant Morrison? Roll Eyes
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"If I print "She was stark naked"--& then proceeded to describe her person in detail, what critic would not howl?--but the artist does this & all ages gather around & look & talk & point." - Mark Twain
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