Is it even desirable at this point for the Multiverse to return?

[Great Rao]

Johns stuff with Black Adam just seems to be another excuse for more of his cheap gore stunts.

...

And I will admit, there is something darkly cool about Black Adam catching a suicide bomber, tearing his arm off, and saying "You have THREE more chances to tell me who hired you."

I disagree.  There is nothing cool here at all.  Reading it makes me sick and is a prime example of why I avoid Johns like the plague.  I only have so much time in the day in which to do things like read comics, read books, or watch movies.  So I am very particular about what messages I choose to let in to my soul.  Everything you read effects who you are and what you think about.  So the question is - what do you want to be thinking about?  I really do not want any more images of gore or messages of violent cruelty in my brain.  Our culture is currently out of control in this regard, lost in an increasing spiral of doom.  I'd rather have uplifting messages of love and hope.

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with stories that appeal to our base urges for sex and violence.

There is something fundamentally wrong with such stories.  They encourage and spread despair and loss.  Hence they are extremely irresponsible, possibly even evil.

[Aldous]

It all depends whether or not you want your comics to reflect reality. All of you pampered, comic-reading citizens who find themselves tucked up in cosy beds at night live the lifestyle you do because other men take part in violence on your behalf. There is a price for your safety. It's a terrible price, and luckily for you, you don't have to pay it.

Back in comic-land, the greatest of the heroes, Superman, would never deliberately hurt someone in such a manner, no matter what was at stake, even the life of Lois Lane. (Or would he?)

[JulianPerez]

I disagree.  There is nothing cool here at all.  Reading it makes me sick and is a prime example of why I avoid Johns like the plague. 

I would share your nausea if it was, say Superman or Captain America that did the deed, because Superman and Captain America have been characterized as clean, decent people that fight with restraint. Having them interrogate a terrorist by tearing limbs off would be a grotesque mischaracterization. People would be RIGHT to complain.

But c'mon, that's Black Adam. He's a results-oriented character whose power is downright frightening.

I only have so much time in the day in which to do things like read comics, read books, or watch movies.  So I am very particular about what messages I choose to let in to my soul.  Everything you read effects who you are and what you think about. 

I can't possibly deny feeling a tingle of joy at a movie as sincere, wonderful and life-affirming as Capra's IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. I feel great every time I see that movie and I doubt I'm alone. Is that what you mean by "what you let into your soul?"

But not every movie has to be IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. Not every show necessarily has to be TOUCHED BY AN ANGEL. As Alfred Hitchcock once famously said (and I'm paraphrasing), "Fear, despair, and horror are all things audiences enjoy when they know they're safe." There's plenty of room for a movie like CHINATOWN as well as Capra's Christmas fllick..

I'm not comparing Black Adam to CHINATOWN. What I am saying is that a story and character can be auccessful for different kinds of reasons and for arousing different rkinds of emotions in the reader.

Back in comic-land, the greatest of the heroes, Superman, would never deliberately hurt someone in such a manner, no matter what was at stake, even the life of Lois Lane. (Or would he?)

Superman is my all time favorite superhero because of his ingenuity and pluck and the way every problem to him has a solution, and the very uplifting sense that nothing is really impossible to him. I don't think all supercharacters need to be this way, however.

[/quote="Great Rao"]So the question is - what do you want to be thinking about?  I really do not want any more images of gore or messages of violent cruelty in my brain.  Our culture is currently out of control in this regard, lost in an increasing spiral of doom.  I'd rather have uplifting messages of love and hope. [/quote]

Does it really work that way? Isn't it possible that Tarzan beating up endangered species and Tony Soprano whacking somebody, or a giant snake eating a teenager is a harmless thrill that can be cathartic, and maybe even healthy?

There is something fundamentally wrong with such stories.  They encourage and spread despair and loss.  Hence they are extremely irresponsible, possibly even evil.

Whatever you do, don't tell Roger Corman!

I don't think there's anything irresponsible about these stories, because these stories didn't create the human attraction and appeal for sensationalist sex and violence. It was already there and they're honest enough to say that it is.

[TELLE]

The funny thing is, many villains in the superhero comics of the 40s (maybe not in Captain Marvel comics) were murderous torturers.  But outside of the crime and horror comics, this sort of thing wasn't as graphic or gleeful.  And I'm confused --is Black Adam being written as a superhero these days?

[Kuuga]

I admit, I really dislike gore and slasher movies. I don't see one single bit of entertainment value in such a thing. To me it's not cathartic in the least. It's just stupid, gross, and sad. Especially the trend lately with drawn out torture scenes with people begging for their life. (I have friends who get into that kind of stuff so I have seen enough to form my opinion). At the same time though, I understand that most people who watch those don't feel any actual need to emulate whats on the screen. 

Conan stuff, I can see the point there. Conan's world is rough and he lives by the sword. But Conan is very much an adults-only kind of thing and I think you can even overdo it there. The point of reading a Conan story shouldn't be just to see somebody's head fly off.


In a mainstream DC superhero comicbook I'm sorry, that has no place and there is no need to be that freakin severe to get a point across! A superhero comicbook is not a gorror comic, crime comic,  or a Conan book. If Johns wants to do stuff like that, fine! Go write one of those! Superheroes are the kind of thing that young and old alike should be able to enjoy without the writing down to either, but also better handled with class. If there MUST be goretastic superhero comics you don't do that with the likes of Captain Marvel or Superman or the rest of mainstream DC! ..and don't give me the tired old line about video games and how this is what "today's kids" are used to. No this does not mean I advocate censorship or want the Comics Code back in full force or even necessarily the return of the Silver Age.

As far as reality versus fantasy, hey go outside. It doesn't get more real than that. If I'm gonna sit down and read fantasy, I want to see something different. Maybe see a world or a future that inspires me to make my own a better one! Also let's face it, modern comics definition of reality is extremely narrow and extremely negative. All darkness and death, in the "real" world superheroes would be hated and feared, the genre rules would never work, the worlds stinks, the good guys don't actually win and so on.

Justice and hope prevailing, a colorful world of action and adventure with heroes who wear their colors and nobility proudly, now THAT is cathartic!

[TELLE]

I don't think art or even escapist fantasy comics featuring superheroes should be restricted to teaching or creating morally emulative characters.  I do think that the superhero genre, which can hold alot and be stretched in many different ways, cannot maintain the sort of genre expectations the current so-called adult audience brings to it.  As an exercise, deconstructive or otherwise (Watchmen, Dark Knight), or a parody (Superduperman, Megaton Man, etc.) the form survives.  It is even possible to create lasting work of value doing an ersatz Shazam story (see Miracleman).  But children's characters intended as sanitized entertainment for minors mostly come off as cynical, ridiculous, cluelessly self-parodying mistakes when altered in this way.  Unfortunately, DC has an investment in these properties and (also unfortunately) the only audience for them seems to be jaded pseudo-adults and cynical teen videogamers.  Nobody tries to make a really kick-ass violent and sadistic Hardy Boys or Wind in the Willows.  Why superheroes? (because they are already predicated on violence, I guess)

[Super Monkey]

The funny thing is, many villains in the superhero comics of the 40s (maybe not in Captain Marvel comics) were murderous torturers.

Well, there were some brutal ones like Captain Nazi and Sabbac, but they were Captain Marvel Jr. Villains and his book was a bit darker than the big red cheese.

[Super Monkey]

Reading it makes me sick and is a prime example of why I avoid Johns like the plague.

Make no mistake Johns is a gorehoud:

Quotes from a new interview, where he talks about his new takes on classic villians, see if you can see a pattern here:

Johns on Parasite:

“The Parasite leeched off of everybody in his life, and it resulted in a lot of bad things, including death and murder."

Johns on Metallo:

“Metallo’s the ultimate bully,” explains Johns. "If he can brag that he made Superman bleed—he loves that, and that’s all he really wants."

Johns on Bizarro:

"Bizarro is definitely a threat; he’s dangerous and that’s how Superman sees him. He certainly doesn’t see him as a joke or a funny character."

Johns on Bizarroworld:

“Just think ‘Dawn of the Dead,” says Johns. “Bizarroworld is a little bit more scary and creepy."

Johns on Brainiac:

"We’re trying to push him into the upper echelon of villains, and make him a really scary threat. When Brainiac shows up, it’s a very devastating thing."

Johns on Action Comics Annual:

"Art Adams is doing a four-page mini on how Superman can be killed."

Johns on Action Comics:

"We’re just gonna try and push the envelope in ideas, and if people say, ‘You can’t do that!’ we wanna do it!”



http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/003071109.cfm