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Author Topic: Action Comics is out of Action  (Read 50116 times)
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DBN
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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2007, 03:49:14 AM »

the Superboy Bizarro appeared once, he is no more the true version as is the 30's Superman who killed is the true version of Superman. It is no excuse to have Superman start killing villains now, same with Bizarro.

Bizarro is and should be a gag funny comedy character, that is the version which is the true version. If people didn't love that version we wouldn't keep coming up with wacky Bizarro versions of people and things. Try it, it's fun and that's the whole point.

If you don't want funny Superman story, then create a new monster and make it tragic rather than trying to make a comedy character something which it is not suppose to be.

Why must every revision led to ultra-violent versions of nonviolent characters?

That only worked ONCE, with Marvelman, then never again. Yet, people will always try to recreate and capture that magic, but they never will. There will never be another Watchmen, or DKR, so please just give it up. Not even Frank Miller could do another DKR and make it as good as the 1st. Why does everyone else think they could?

For the record, the treatment of Bizarro in that Alan Moore story was something that I didn't like, but at least it wasn't suppose to be canon. See even Alan Moore himself couldn't do it! LOL.

Man, the first Bizarro #1 story wasn't a comedy. It was (in a sense) a lighter version of Frankenstein with a happy ending. Despite the fact that the story had a happy resolution, it does not change the fact that Bizarro was a tragic character. The character realizes that he shouldn't exist and acknowledges that he doesn't know right from wrong. Even with that, he tries to be like Superman and the people of Earth try to kill him simply because of his appearance. The character then goes on to try and end his existance because of the danger he poses. He fails, spots Lois in a helicopter, and falls in love with her. That love leads him to kidnap Lois who then rejects him. He then steals the duplicator ray to create a handsome version of himself that Lois can love. He then attempts to murder Superman for trying to interfere with his plan.

When Lois figures out that "Superman" is just another duplicate, Bizarro comes clean and his own creation insults him. The two fight a hopeless battle until Bizarro destroys the kryptonite (that he tried to use to kill Superman) to get Kal's help against new Bizarro. Unfortunatly, new Bizarro is killed by a cloud of kryptonite dust that resulted from the k-meteor Bizarro destroyed.

The delusional creature then decides that Lois secretly loves her and brings her a flower from Pluto that nearly hurts her. (Thankfully, Superman made the quick save.) He goes on to stalk her by adopting the indentity of Clark Kent. Luckely, Kal uses his heat vision to destroy Bizarro's disguise before he can compromise his secret identity. Bizarro kidnaps Lois once again bringing her back to the same island. Kal follows and another pointless fight begins. Lois ends the insanity by creating Bizarro-Lois and the two leave Earth together.

How is that comedy?
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DBN
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2007, 04:03:43 AM »

Continued:

The Byrne and later Jurgens take on the character closely followed that story (without the happy ending). Neither one killed anybody and actually ended up being quite noble.

Compare that with the Johns take on the character that kills and injures children or Loeb's Batzarro who murdered a couple to investigate their murder.
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2007, 05:03:24 AM »

Ok, then what happen in the very next issue? What about every single appearance after that from 1959 to 1986?



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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2007, 05:15:33 AM »

I really don't understand what this argument is about.  It sounds like you both agree on the problems with Geoff Johns' Bizarro.
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2007, 06:18:10 AM »

He is trying to defend Byrne's version, no sane person would try to defend Geoff John's Bizarro.

Bryne's Bizarro isn't really a true Bizarro, no more than his Superman is.

Not that it matters that version doesn't exist anymore.

I need to stop wasting my time writing about comics that I don't care about (Iron Age Superman).

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jamespup
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2007, 04:13:10 PM »

John's is a Bizarro Bizarro
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DBN
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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2007, 06:17:24 PM »

Ok, then what happen in the very next issue? What about every single appearance after that from 1959 to 1986?

The Bizarro World story? It was mainly a comedy, but still had serious plot points. The Bizarros locked up some of their fellow Bizarros for having non-deformed minds (which was never resolved) and wanted to turn Superman into a Bizarro for simply not knowing their laws.

What about the son of Bizarro trilogy? Humerous elements with Bizarro's son on Earth, but still not a straight up gag reel.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2007, 11:12:50 AM »

There have been bad versions of Superman, but there's never been a version that is entirely devoid of at least one good idea.

The Byrne/Kesel/Wolfman reboot in the middle 1980s had its flaws, certainly, but it had two good ideas: their treatment of Bizarro, and their treatment of Lori Lemaris.

Lori Lemaris, in many ways, is much more unique and has much more to do if she's dead. Alive, Lori's the Superman-girlfriend equivalent of Timothy Dalton: an also-ran James Bond that is nobody's favorite.

Does anyone seriously want Superman to get together with Lori? Anyone at all?

But if Lori died - and if she died tragically - she becomes transformed into a very powerful, emotional figure: she becomes Superman's tragic love.

I also like the fact that Byrne and Kesel incorporated Aquaman into the Lori Lemaris story. Previously, having two contradictory versions of Atlantis was one of the most thickheaded acts of idiocy ever perpetrated by Weisenger's jealous and arrogant editorial Iron Fist.

Granted, Byrne, Helfer, and Kesel killed off Lori because of a mistaken belief Superman and Lois are "meant for each other," but it is possible to do the right thing for the wrong reason.

As for Bizarro...

Quote from: SuperMonkey
Bizarro is and should be a gag funny comedy character, that is the version which is the true version. If people didn't love that version we wouldn't keep coming up with wacky Bizarro versions of people and things. Try it, it's fun and that's the whole point.

As always, SuperMonkey, your observation would be accurate...if the Bronze Age had never happened at all. (I'm reminded of our discussion on Supergirl here.)

I'm amazed that we've gone this far and nobody has yet mentioned Martin Pasko's middle-seventies Bizarro stories, where not only did Bizarro acquire "backwards" powers like Shrinking Vision and Fire-Breath, but also he was a monstrous, tragic and not truly wicked Frankenstein creature duped by villains like the Toyman into evil acts because he didn't know any better.

This is why, though the Bizarro character was much more sympathetic and true to his roots in the Byrne/Helfer version, I'm not certain how much credit to give "Johnny Redbeard and his Seven Dwarves," because Bizarro hadn't been written as a goofy clown for at least a decade. A tragic, sympathetic Bizarro clone was old news even then.

Quote from: SuperMonkey
Ok, then what happen in the very next issue? What about every single appearance after that from 1959 to 1986?

Don't you mean "what about every single appearance after that from 1959-1965?" Again, after "Tales of" was replaced by "Superboy and the Legion" in ADVENTURE, Bizarro was either mostly ignored, used as a "retro" element that was no longer relevant, or written by guys like Pasko as a tragic monster.

Quote from: SuperMonkey
If you don't want funny Superman story, then create a new monster and make it tragic rather than trying to make a comedy character something which it is not suppose to be.

...And this statement would be true if it wasn't for the fact "Tales of the Bizarro World" just wasn't funny.

"Gags" like paperboys yelling "Yesterday's News! Don't read all about it!" are a less coarse society's version of snot or flatulence jokes: a goofy laugh if you're under ten, but intolerably immature and gag-inducing for anyone above that age.

Bizarro is another one of the characters that the 1950s (easily Superman's second-worst decade besides the 1990s) worked a horrible reverse-Rumplestiltskin effect: turning gold back into straw.

Quote from: TELLE
The Byrne Bizarro is just a rehash of the first Siegel Superboy story, with one or two new additions --the original was full of pathos and all the more impressive as it was written in the 1950s and was essentially a children's story (not to mention, the complexity of any work of art that involves Siegel, Superboy, and a copy of Superboy --a sort of metacommentary on the experience of Siegel losing control of his own   creation --Siegel was the Mary Shelley of kid's comics).

Interesting observation: Bizarro being a metaphor for Siegel's relationship with his famous character. And the original story is truly filled with incredible emotions, one of Jerry Siegel's great strengths.

Further, it's interesting to point out that the two things that the Helfer-edited version of the character did right were pretty much shot-by-shot xeroxes of the original stories.
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