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Author Topic: Action Comics is out of Action  (Read 47601 times)
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Uncle Mxy
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2007, 01:28:47 PM »

Lori Lemaris, in many ways, is much more unique and has much more to do if she's dead. Alive, Lori's the Superman-girlfriend equivalent of Timothy Dalton: an also-ran James Bond that is nobody's favorite.

Does anyone seriously want Superman to get together with Lori? Anyone at all?

But if Lori died - and if she died tragically - she becomes transformed into a very powerful, emotional figure: she becomes Superman's tragic love.

I also like the fact that Byrne and Kesel incorporated Aquaman into the Lori Lemaris story. Previously, having two contradictory versions of Atlantis was one of the most thickheaded acts of idiocy ever perpetrated by Weisenger's jealous and arrogant editorial Iron Fist.

Granted, Byrne, Helfer, and Kesel killed off Lori because of a mistaken belief Superman and Lois are "meant for each other," but it is possible to do the right thing for the wrong reason.
It depends on what you mean by "get together".  Permanently?  Certainly not.  For more than a one-issue stand?  Indeed!  I think Lori has a place as a character who crops up from time to time, especially to give new artists a spin on "All This And Fins Too".  There's no "two women fighting each other for Superman's affection" stories anymore.  Maxima fights Superman for his affections as much as anything.  Lois has Superman.  Lana is resigned to never have Superman.  It'd be fun to see Superman driven a little mer-crazy  the same way that sailors were, especially if Lois is acting like a Parasite.  Just being a telepath could easily make for interesting antics, as much of a separation of worlds as air vs. water.  Of course, in post-Crisis, glub-glub Superman couldn't survive underwater indefinitely (ugh), so Lori would be hazardous to his health in a way that she wouldn't have been pre-Crisis (or probably post-IC). 

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Michel Weisnor
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2007, 04:11:16 PM »

BIZARRO TALK WITH ERIC POWELL

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=101979
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Permanus
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« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2007, 04:40:46 PM »


Actually, I quite like his take on Bizarro from this interview. I've never read The Goon, but I've seen it on the stands; it looks quite good.
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Great Rao
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« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2007, 05:00:06 PM »

I also like the fact that Byrne and Kesel incorporated Aquaman into the Lori Lemaris story. Previously, having two contradictory versions of Atlantis was one of the most thickheaded acts of idiocy ever perpetrated by Weisenger's jealous and arrogant editorial Iron Fist.

I never knew that it was Byrne and Kesel who tied these two different Atlantises together.  I had always thought PAD did that in The Atlantis Chronicles.

Quote
Granted, Byrne, Helfer, and Kesel killed off Lori because of a mistaken belief Superman and Lois are "meant for each other," but it is possible to do the right thing for the wrong reason.

If they killed off Lori Lemaris, then what was she doing in all those Stuart Immonen issues in the 1990s?
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
JulianPerez
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« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 05:16:11 PM »

Quote from: Great Rao
I never knew that it was Byrne and Kesel who tied these two different Atlantises together.  I had always thought PAD did that in The Atlantis Chronicles.

I never said Byrne and Kesel merged the story of the two Atlantises together. What I said they did was, they incorporated Aquaman into the Superman/Lori love story. It was in many ways a glorified cameo, but at least it was something.

And if you want to really get nitpicky, ATLANTIS CHRONICLES was hardly the first to attempt to tie the various Atlantises together in a history; the early eighties Paul Kupperberg fill-in issues of JLA had the ruins of Arion's magical Atlantis beneath Aquaman's, for example.

Quote from: Great Rao
If they killed off Lori Lemaris, then what was she doing in all those Stuart Immonen issues in the 1990s?

If I remember right, she was brought back later on, with some sort of amulet that let her have legs on land.

To the best of my knowledge, Lori Lemaris is still alive...and the fact she hasn't been used all that much really proves my point: Lori is a fun idea, but in practice there's very little that can really be done with her.
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Kuuga
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« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2007, 06:09:23 PM »

Well, I'm sure your boy Johns will find a way to hack and slash her on-camera soon enough.
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Super Monkey
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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2007, 01:19:59 AM »

Well, I'm sure your boy Johns will find a way to hack and slash her on-camera soon enough.

Actually, he actually did just that in Infinite Crisis.

Quote
Don't you mean "what about every single appearance after that from 1959-1965?"

This is from the 1980's Pre-Crisis:

http://m.homestead.com/yellowlantern.html

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JulianPerez
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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2007, 11:48:48 AM »

What I find most interesting about Lori is that even among the people that LIKE her, she's not a favorite. The Timothy Dalton comparison gets more and more apt the more I think about it: even among people that like Dalton, he's never their favorite.

Unlike the Bizarro World (a terminally retarded concept that Jeph Loeb made a big mistake in resuscitating) I have a great deal of fondness for Lori Lemaris. I like her a great deal. However, she deserves a better niche than just "Superman's third or maybe fourth best girl."

Quote from: SuperMonkey
This is from the 1980's Pre-Crisis:

So the Bizarro concept was used in a deliberately retro and irrelevant manner after the deserved cancelation of his backup in the middle sixties? Wow, I guess that just torpedoes my whole point, doesn't it? I take it. All. Back.

Incidentally, summarizing the period of 1959-1986 with a broad stroke is deeply unwise,. as if Byrne and Wolfman and the rest somehow invented laughing at Superman's more out-there Silver Age elements in 1986, when that isn't true at all. Bizarro was a joke in lettercols as early as 1971. And when Gerry Conway actually had White Kryptonite serve a functional purpose in a story, the response was disbelief.

And this doesn't change the fact that the primary way Bizarro was written going back to Pasko's seventies issues, was as a mentally retarded, half-scary half-sympathetic monster.

This conversation brings to mind one thing I really, really liked about Martin Pasko's work on the Superman villains: he never treated one as a joke. He always took them seriously, even if they were somewhat ridiculous or less famous. Pasko was responsible for the restoration of the Rogues Gallery. Not only was Pasko the guy that brought back the original Toyman, he also gave us the second Metallo, the Atomic Skull, Master Jailer and brought Bizarro back after years and years of disuse.

Pasko never wrote Mxyzptlk as a clown, either. His two appearances of Mxyzptlk had him be a proud little elf whose humor comes not from his surreality, but the idea that Mxyzptlk was a supreme egotist...and that's hilarious because its coming from a midget in a derby hat. Under any writer other than Pasko, Mxy's never worked for me, because under other writers, Mxy bothers Superman out of some insane whim that's not sufficiently detailed. I guess they figure because he's a magical elf they don't have to give him a motivation like any other character. Pasko had Mr. Mxyzptlk bother Superman for a reason: in SUPERMAN 349, Mxyzptlk resents Superman; why should HE be happy when Mxy's having problems with his love life?

In other words, Pasko eliminated the LOST IN SPACE-ing of Mxy. What I mean by that is...in shows like a Western, if a bear or Indian attacks a man, they have to explain why it does so. On LOST IN SPACE, on the other hand, they figure, "Oh boy, let's have a big one-eyed gorilla come out and blast everybody!" And never explain why.

I have a question for you, SuperMonkey: were there any bad ideas in the Silver Age? Give specific examples. No, I don't mean ideas that were "bad" because they were similar to Marvel or the Iron Age, like the Doom Patrol's angst or the violence of Kanigher war comics. No, I mean something in the Silver Age that is a bad idea, that fails in the context of being a Silver Age story: I mean something like the Kite-Man or Bat-Mite, or Streaky the Super-Cat, or stories involving gimmickry like evil twins or a hero being regressed back to their childhood.

I strongly suspect there's an act of intellectual dishonesty going on here - that the Silver Age is exempted from having bad ideas (except when its like the modern age).
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"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
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