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Author Topic: Holy cow, am I ever tired of Grant Morrison  (Read 29741 times)
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2007, 05:18:54 AM »

Errr...so in order to be follow the Silver Age, writers should "channel" those elements you like, modify them to fit how you think they should play out in the modern era - and this is an objective argument?
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Permanus
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2007, 06:49:30 AM »

And fear is GOOD. Nobody could ever be afraid of Insect Queen or John Jones. In order to be afraid of something, you can't be able to laugh at it.

Well, maybe it's just me, but if I ever encountered a giant locust with the torso of a woman, I'd probably spend the rest of my life crouching in a corner of my padded cell in abject horror.
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Superman Forever
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2007, 01:29:45 PM »

I think that the thing about the Morrison JLA is a lot simpler than what is being discussed here. The League was the big heroes. The big heroes were the best in all aspects. There was sense of wonder and mad ideas. The good always triunphed over evil, and everyone was happy at the ending. Thatīs JLA for me. 
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DBN
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2007, 08:25:24 PM »

I think that the thing about the Morrison JLA is a lot simpler than what is being discussed here. The League was the big heroes. The big heroes were the best in all aspects. There was sense of wonder and mad ideas. The good always triunphed over evil, and everyone was happy at the ending. Thatīs JLA for me. 

Exactly, and in Morrison/Waid's JLA, the heroes actually DID something as opposed to looking at a bunch of photographs for 4 issues.
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Criadoman
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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2007, 04:13:59 AM »

Quote from: Criadoman
I personally thought the guys writing was phenomenal and frankly, thanks to him, my favorite heroes started getting the love they deserve and knocked those darn X-books off the top ten lists for some time.

The best job Morrison did in knocking off the X-Books...was when he was writing the X-Books.

Maybe true - I don't follow them.  Thing was that JLA was hot stuff amongst the fans boys, and I concurred.

Quote from: Criadoman
Further, Superman and Bats had genuine admiration for each other, for the first time I've seen since World's Finest pre-crisis.  The biggest kick I got was Superman realizing that Batman was still free and the whole "the most dangerous man alive" thing, as well as the confidence knowing that the Martian's time was up with Bats on the loose.  I loved it!

True, there was admiration, but there was also a mutual sort of suspicion and criticism which makes it not quite the usual friendship. Morrison laid the boundaries for Waid's "Tower of Babel" with Batman and Superman's disagreement about trust after the secret mission with Barda and Orion. I was responding to the point that Morrison is somehow "Mr. Silver Age" when his dynamic is complicated.

As stated earlier - the key thing that I see here is that we do have some interpersonal dynamics that does start taking down the "Superman and Batman shouldn't get along" edicts.

As far as writers go, I do think that Grant does move forward towards Silver Age sensibilities, but again, I'm not painting him Mr. Silver Age.  In honesty, and as much as I love All-Star (although the art is starting to leave me a bit dry), I can see where it made sense to lean very heavily in that direction with his series.  In truth, and we've made these points on this board before, Kurt's Astro City Superman and Moore's Liefield Superman (ha ha - there's a few names you just can't get used to saying together anytime) set so many newer bars (which were all set by Supes himself before they were forgotten) - and it was such a winning formula - what would happen if you just did it with the right character?  So, I simply see Grant applying the formula that worked so well for Supes so many years ago, and his successors so many years later.
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2007, 09:22:38 PM »

Quote from: Superman Forever
I think that the thing about the Morrison JLA is a lot simpler than what is being discussed here. The League was the big heroes. The big heroes were the best in all aspects.

HAHAHAHAHAHA you mean like Aquaman and John Jones, Manhunter from Mars?

Quote from: Superman Forever
There was sense of wonder and mad ideas.

I didn't detect any wild ideas. They visit Wonderworld and it's just another superhero lair with a bottled city and a brain?

Think about what someone like Neil Gaiman would do with the idea that angels...are REAL. What a mindblowing idea. But what does Morrison do? Have Superman punch a guy with eyes on his chest while the rest catch a blimp. That's a failure of the imagination there. Lame, lame, lame!

And the overwhelming majority of his stories are either directly lifted or reminiscent of other stories. Superheroes vs. the Military? Yawn. Superheroes in a dystopian future where villains ruled? Double yawn. Alien invasion? The guy even NAMED his stories after B-Movies.

Quote from: DBN
Exactly, and in Morrison/Waid's JLA, the heroes actually DID something as opposed to looking at a bunch of photographs for 4 issues.

I think you missed the point. The JLA founders were talking about who was going to be in the JLA. It was tense, and it had a few twists in it: for instance, the idea Batman wasn't going to be included. Also, I doubt they devoted more than three or four pages to this story per comic. The rest is good stuff like Red Arrow vs. thousands of Red Tornadoes and Solomon Grundy with superintelligence.

It's really been embarassing how Morrison's been utterly outdone; first by Busiek with his astonishing JLA arc, and now by the tense Brad Meltzer.

Quote from: ME-Lad
Errr...so in order to be follow the Silver Age, writers should "channel" those elements you like, modify them to fit how you think they should play out in the modern era - and this is an objective argument?

Yeah, it is supposed to be an objective argument, at least to the extent that a supported opinion with clear criteria can be objective.

Here, let me put what I'm saying another way:

I absolutely think they did the right thing in updating MIAMI VICE to modern times in the recent movie. Because MIAMI VICE is not, and never was, about the pink and pastel uniforms, or about the loafers without socks.

MIAMI VICE was a tough, cool undercover cop show about a glamorous, violent and dangerous lifestyle, and that's exactly what Mike Mann did on screen. They were true to the "cool action" spirit of the show, even though it didn't superficially look like what we think of as MIAMI VICE.

But imagine what a horrible movie would have resulted if, instead of emphasizing the glamour and grit, they made the movie about eighties nostalgia and horrible fashoin disasters and Rico and Crockett showed up to the scene of the crime driving a D'Elorian while listing to Falco and Men Without Hats.

If it had been a comedy/parody, that would have been one thing...but what if Michael Mann played it "straight" and REALLY, sincerely thought that all that detritus was what made MIAMI VICE cool - the bad fashoin and eighties nostalgia?

THAT is why I am stone-cold unimpressed by Supermonkey's argument that "hey, ASS's in the Spirit of Silver Age Superman because look! Why...there are Flash Gordon ray guns and fins on things!"

No.

That doesn't mean anything.

In fact, all that is sign of being UNTRUE to the spirit of Superman. It's like saying, "hey, screw all those Silver Age Legion of Super-Heroes stories where they fought overwhelming enemies and cosmic odds and people died. What LOSH is all about, what should be duplicated today, are those stories where Jimmy Olsen as Elastic Lad helped the Legion through his clumsiness!"

(I hope I never live to see Grant on LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES. I'd collapse of a gigantic hate-induced heart-attack. That's exactly what he'd do, you know. For the love of all that is holy, people, the guy brought back friggin' BAT-MITE!)

That's how I feel when I read a story where Lois temporarily gains powers as a birthday present from Superman. The very fact it is being done shows the writer enjoys Superman on the level of "ironic appreciation," because if you appreciate something ironically, that means you're not capable of distinguishing between strengths and weaknesses.

Then again, there are those that feel that Superman isn't supposed to be a great adventure and action character...but a guy whose stories ought to be gimmicky tales where Big Blue battles with Sampson and Atlas over the hand of Lois, and where Jimmy transforms into weird things regularly.
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2007, 09:51:00 PM »

I love the mix of the goofy with the serious. That's the Silver Age to me, stripping either out would diminish it. I liked Lightning Lad losing an arm, and I liked the kids playing "Spaceopoloy" in the Legion clubhouse. Dream Girl was as important as Ferro Lad to the overall mixture for me.

It still seems like you are picking what you like and saying that later emphasis on that is what defines the spirit of the Silver Age.  To me, the age is what it was.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 10:29:05 PM by MatterEaterLad » Logged
DBN
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« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2007, 02:05:52 AM »

Quote
I think you missed the point. The JLA founders were talking about who was going to be in the JLA. It was tense, and it had a few twists in it: for instance, the idea Batman wasn't going to be included. Also, I doubt they devoted more than three or four pages to this story per comic. The rest is good stuff like Red Arrow vs. thousands of Red Tornadoes and Solomon Grundy with superintelligence.

It's really been embarassing how Morrison's been utterly outdone; first by Busiek with his astonishing JLA arc, and now by the tense Brad Meltzer.

They talked and looked at Polaroids for 4 issues. This could have been accomplished in one issue. Bendis-level decompression. Sorry, but at $2.99 an issue, I expect my favorite heroes to actually DO something. Not stand around the Batcave and talk.

Johns managed to do the Polaroid-thing in one issue with his JSA relaunch.
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