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Author Topic: Captain America: Murdered  (Read 14534 times)
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dto
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« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2007, 05:05:53 PM »

Interesting sidenote -- about a year ago Captain America died in "Last Hero Standing", based in the MC2 Universe of Spider-Girl, Avengers Next, etc.  Compared to his Earth-616 counterpart, this aging legend went out in true heroic fashion after a valiant one-on-one against Loki.  Thor even turned Cap's shield into a star to inspire future heroes.

One wonders if the death of the MC2 Captain America was in any way prompted by Marvel's Civil War plans.  Was this a "trial balloon", a bit of foreshadowing or perhaps even a preemptory "editorial comment" showing how the Cap SHOULD have gone?

I never paid much attention to the first Spider-Girl series until recently, but the overall atmosphere is far more positive than what I see in the mainstream Marvel Universe... or current DC, for that manner.  It's somewhat sad for a former Earth-1 Kara Zor-El fan that I actually find "Mayday" Parker more appealling and interesting than the "new" Supergirl.
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« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2007, 07:18:16 PM »

As for what Kirby would say to Englehart...well, that's hard to say. Kirby's political perspective is very weird at times. One of the things that strikes me about the Fourth World comics, NEW GODS in particular, is that it doesn't seem like something an American would make. The idea of two superpowers dueling over a country in between is something you'd imagine coming out of a smaller, non-aligned country.

I've always thought Kirby's politics were Democrat or liberal if not exactly left wing but so much of Kirby was also an ancrhonism by say, 1980.

Googling the subject of course turns up Mark Evanier on Kirby:

"Basically, he thought Captain America was bigger than any one writer's momentary politics, which is why he didn't inject his own into the stories he wrote."

He then goes on to five a sketch of his politics in an articlem part of which reads as follows:

Quote
Jack's own politics were, like most Jewish men of his age who didn't own a big company, pretty much Liberal Democrat. He didn't like Richard Nixon and he really didn't like the rumblings in the early seventies of what would later be called "The Religious Right." At the same time, he thought Captain America represented a greater good than the advancement of Jack Kirby's worldview. During the 1987 Iran-Contra hearings, Jack was outraged when Ollie North appeared before Congress and it wasn't just because North lied repeatedly or tried to justify illegal actions. Jack thought it was disgraceful that North wore his military uniform while testifying. The uniform, Jack said, belonged to every man and woman who had every worn it (including former Private First Class Jack Kirby) and North had no right to exploit it the way he did. I always thought that comment explained something about the way Kirby saw Captain America. Cap, obviously, should stand for the flag and the republic for which it stands but like the flag for all Americans, not merely those who wish to take the nation in some exclusionary direction. In much the same way, one of the many things Nixon had done that offended Jack was an attempt many decried, on the part of that administration, to usurp the American flag as a symbol of support for Richard Nixon.

Jack's 1976-1977 stories of Captain America the ones where he had near-complete control show very little evidence of his own political beliefs of the time. He felt strongly about many things happening in the world at that time, especially various battles and hostage situations relating to Israel, but he chose to keep his hero above those frays and to deal more in the abstract. Captain America made his greatest statement by wearing the flag with pride and by triumphing over all forms of adversity. To Jack, it was the great thing about the American spirit: That it was born of gutsy determination and, as with any good superhero, compassion for all. Some of the storylines he talked about but never had the chance to put into print would have reinforced the idea that Captain America was greater than any one man...including those who created his adventures.

http://www.povonline.com/notes/Notes031005.htm



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« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2007, 11:58:50 PM »

You think about it.
If Steve Rogers were a real person. He would have the moral values of my Grandfather (and of course not be as old).
He would be patriotic brassy, sorta racist, old school and stuck in his ways.
Maybe this is their attempt to put a new "modern" guy in the Captain America suit with modern values and ideas.
Not sure how they are going to get away with it but they will probably at least try for a year until they will most likely bring Steve Rogers back after it flops. Marvel really need to do something because the girl across the street selling lemonade probably profits more then them on a monthly basis.   Grin

It is ridiculously inaccurate to assume that all people from your Grandfathers era are racist. Nor would Steve Rogers himself be racist.

I am sorry. I hope no one gets offended by this. I found this on a site called http://www.shortpacked.com.  That post reminded me of this. By no means, I mean no harm.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 12:00:54 AM by Mighty Man » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2007, 09:38:32 PM »

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!! Ok, you guys get a No_prize for seeing this coming a mile away!
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9962

just click on the link, Marvel REFUSES to let the Iron Age die.. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

They have become a parody of themselves! 
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« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2007, 10:23:25 PM »

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!! Ok, you guys get a No_prize for seeing this coming a mile away!
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9962

just click on the link, Marvel REFUSES to let the Iron Age die.. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

They have become a parody of themselves! 

 Wink That's Marvel.

A friend asked me about Captain America's death. I explained (to her) the Reader's Digest version of Civil War and it's aftermath. She snickered and told me Marvel trivialized complex world events to make a few extra bucks. I hate to say it, believe me I really hate to say it: she's right.         
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« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2007, 03:21:04 AM »

A friend asked me about Captain America's death. I explained (to her) the Reader's Digest version of Civil War and it's aftermath. She snickered and told me Marvel trivialized complex world events to make a few extra bucks. I hate to say it, believe me I really hate to say it: she's right.
Of course, the same could be said for the WWII-era comics. 

It's hard to not trivialize, especially when real death is so rare in comics.  Steve Rogers certainly comes out of this alive and well.  Who knows -- maybe his brain gets merged with Red Skull's body? 
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Michel Weisnor
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« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2007, 01:04:42 PM »

A friend asked me about Captain America's death. I explained (to her) the Reader's Digest version of Civil War and it's aftermath. She snickered and told me Marvel trivialized complex world events to make a few extra bucks. I hate to say it, believe me I really hate to say it: she's right.
Of course, the same could be said for the WWII-era comics. 

It's hard to not trivialize, especially when real death is so rare in comics.  Steve Rogers certainly comes out of this alive and well.  Who knows -- maybe his brain gets merged with Red Skull's body? 

Is there a difference between WWII and post-911 comicbooks?

Funny, Red Skull was killed earlier in Brubaker/Eptings run. He was back after only a few issues in a brand new body to boot. When Captain America returns, I wonder if he'll be a pawn or the real deal.   
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« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2007, 03:35:03 PM »

It's funny --the earliest example of "superhero death" in silver age marvel that i know of is Dr. Doom's body switch in ff # 10 or so.  A very tried and true "out" for villains.

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