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Author Topic: Captain America: Murdered  (Read 14535 times)
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Lee Semmens
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2007, 11:09:41 AM »

The major newspaper in my city ran a story (rather surprisingly) about Captain America's death, and cited Quesada as saying he wouldn't rule out Cap's return, but rather spoiled it by ending with the following statement by the reporter: "After all, Marvel killed Superman in 1993, and resurrected him in '94"!?!
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Permanus
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 12:25:51 PM »

The major newspaper in my city ran a story (rather surprisingly) about Captain America's death, and cited Quesada as saying he wouldn't rule out Cap's return, but rather spoiled it by ending with the following statement by the reporter: "After all, Marvel killed Superman in 1993, and resurrected him in '94"!?!

I'm rather put in mind of the TV chat show host who claimed to be a good friend of Bob Kane's in the late 80s, early 90s, only to add: "He still doing Batman?"

As for this Captain America business, it's almost as if the cynicism with which these campaigns is waged is finally eating away at the instigators. It's as if a snake-oil salesman were riding into town, wearily aware of the fact that he's done this once too often, and looking forward to his lynching at the hands of the townspeople.
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Kuuga
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 07:41:41 PM »

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up. You mean to say Captain America may not be 100% relevant?  Wink What a totally new and heretofore unknown problem and situation that I never before realized!

Seriously, all sarcasm aside...man, people have been saying Cap is old school since the FIFTIES. In fact, there's an argument that says the only time Cap was even vaguely relevant was the forties.

This is why Steve Englehart wrote the "Man Without a Country" run when he did: because Cap was embarassingly unhip even in 1970-whenever-it-was, and having Cap lose faith in America was something that made him sympathetic and relevant. It's amazing how well the Englehart CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON run has aged (unlike the Kirby Cap run that followed it, but that's another story), even despite the fact that the context that it happened in was Watergate and the Nixon presidency: because by making Captain America someone that payed attention to what was going on around him, he transcended his origin as a flag-waiving character into someone that is much more complicated and about American ideals vs. their real-world execution.

This was the Englehart Cap that fought the Squadron Supreme for being tools of the powerful, business/government interests that rule Squadron-Earth.

"You have your definition of a hero, and I've got mine...and mine involves being more aware!"

In other words, Englehart saved Cap from the fate that MIGHTY THOR eventually suffered: condemned to being a Marvel property that only the original creators in the original context ever really got, who keeps on being published, but whose soul disappeared sometime in the late seventies.

It's funny: Englehart made Superman a conservative and Captain America a liberal, and both characterizations worked out well.

The really frustrating thing about this news is that it reflects a really corrupt, overkill mentality: killing a character off because writers can't think of what to do with them at the moment. Considering the way the post-CIVIL WAR Marvel comics are looking, with EVERYBODY being pro-Registration and every state having a superteam, Steve Rogers, who would NEVER sign up, doesn't "fit in." So, what to do?

I've seen enough deaths, yes, even shock-value deaths (shock value can be effective...if it is shocking enough) that have been done well, that I can see the value of it as a technique. The great thing about the Legion of Super-Heroes is you can kill them left and right.

But because cynicism is what it is, people aren't killed off anymore in order to spike sales. People are killed off to create excitement for when they eventually will RETURN.

Marvel's gotten more thrills out of comics fans by teasing us with Thor's possible return than they ever have with Thor alive and well. I can see the same done with Steve: just throw a star-shield on the cover of an issue of IRON MAN and just watch the sales spike.

To an extent, I don't entirely mind this. You'd better believe now Hal Jordan's back, people aren't going to take him for granted for a WHILE.

And speaking of Cap's return...when will that be, and how?

Five gets you ten its going to somehow involve Arnim Zola. (Yes, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.)

Don't forget Red Skull having a Captain America clone body since the Gruenwald years! You'd better believe that'll come into play. And then there's Vance Astrovik having Cap's shield in the GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY years...those that say Cap's return is just a matter of time may be more right than they know.  Wink

I can agree about the working better in WWII but with one thing in mind, he works better there as a *solo* character (or with Bucky). In modern times he's usually better off with the Avengers unless he's working for SHEILD.

As long there IS an United States of America, Cap will be "relevant". Wether he's considered kewl or hardcore with the bloodthirsty Iron Age comics crowd or people who want superhero stories to be pretentious tomes about todays headlines, well that's another matter.

Killing Cap. FOR WHAT? A sales spike? Some Kennedy Assasination/9-11 posturing to seem edgy?

As a superhero and adventure character there is nothing broken about him and this latest move is yet another in a long line of disgraces to Jack Kirby's creations.

But nothing about this really shocks me at all. If Joe wants to shock me, try telling straight up fullblast superhero action/adventure stories with the character instead of corrupting his dead sidekicks soul and drowning him "shades of grey".
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nightwing
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2007, 08:02:15 PM »

I agree with Kuuga.  The only way Quesada could shock me would be to put out a Marvel book I'm interested in buying.  As it is...

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.......

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Great Rao
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 08:15:00 PM »

As far as Cap's return, it's already alluded to in the CNN article where Joe Quesada says, "What happens with the costume?"  It sounds to me like they've already opened the door for someone else to continue on as Captain America in memory of Steve.  I haven't followed the Marvel Universe for a couple of decades, but Bucky seems like the obvious choice.

It sounds to me like this works.  Captain America has always been about the United States: How we see ourselves, our strengths and weaknesses as a country.  The history of Captain America is the history of the United States.  And right now, this is where we're at.  Polarized while in the midst of dramatic change.  Many people are concerned that the government may be moving in fascist directions and that it's using using double-speak terms like "patriot act" to try to justify and disguise it.  Then there are people who refuse to understand that POV and support everything done in the name of the United States, whatever those acts may be.

Rogers' refusal to comply with registration is a patriotic move - and given the passage of the U.S. "REAL ID Act", is completely relevent to current events.  For those who don't know, the "REAL ID Act" takes effect May 2008 and requires that all U.S. Citizens must have and show a federal ID card in order to open a bank account, get a job, or travel.  Some state legislatures, such as Maine, have refused to comply.

The assasination of Steve is also a reflection of the way our world currently is and accurately shows the state of this country - of its traditional values and truths.  Where anger, fear, and violence are waging a war against truth, justice, and tolerance.  I don't blame Marvel for this - they're only the messenger.  I blame the state of the world.

I only hope that Rogers' replacement can set things right.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 08:28:33 PM by Great Rao » Logged

"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 08:26:33 PM »

CA's been killed before.  Steranko--uh -- Hydra -- did it back in the 60s.  Funeral and everything. Kirby album ish inbetween and then back from the dead!

Im with 'wing.............................YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWN
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 09:06:03 PM »

With Thor dead,Marvel just killed another one of my favorite hero,i don't want to talk about this decision,i know that comic book character have regulary died before,but it seems that this old trick still work for the sales,just take a look on Ebay,a quick search for Captain America#25 and everyone can see what i mean. 
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 09:11:58 PM »

Anyone here actually read the story?
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
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