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Author Topic: The earth of "Superman VS Wonder Woman.  (Read 9499 times)
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MatterEaterLad
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2007, 09:23:55 PM »

Wank doesn't bug me.  I do sometimes get tired of new concepts getting over worked.  When an idea of Earth Prime is finally introduced as the "real world" where people read comics (kind of clever), it doesn't take long for a writer to bring a super hero to this world, and then, even a Superboy!
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Great Rao
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2007, 11:19:01 PM »

I don't -think- the Spear of Destiny factored into the Superman vs. WW book, but it's been forever since I've read it.  Baron Blitzkrieg (first introduced as an Earth-2 character) and the samurai dude were the villain enemies, and this was around the time that Lynda Carter WW was in the 1940s.  I think the intent was that it was Earth 2 or at least "not Earth 1".

But if is earth 2 why the newspaper of Clark is the planet and not the star,the editor is Perry and not George Taylor,and the logo is the "S" of earth-1 ?


The story ignores Earth-1 and Earth-2.  It takes place in the Superman/DC comic book continuity of 1945, which predates them both.

How's that?

I think all the "Treasury" editions - including this one; the Superman/Muhammad Ali cross-over; the Superman/Spiderman cross-over; the bizarre Superman Red/Superman Blue re-telling - have nothing at all to do with mainstream DCU continuity.  They each take place in their own nether realities.  Kind of like Elseworlds.
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 05:00:56 AM »

The story ignores Earth-1 and Earth-2.  It takes place in the Superman/DC comic book continuity of 1945, which predates them both.
How's that?

Sounds like a retcon! Smiley  It's my impression that most fans post-"Flash of 2 Worlds" came to understand the Superman/DC comic book continuity of 1945 as having taken place on Earth-2.  Just because earth-2 is not mentioned before 1956 or whatever doesn't mean that it did not exist before then. Even allowing for a different structure of time in the alternate universe, Barry Allen read those Flash comics as a child, several years before becoming Flash and therefore the adventures of Jay Garrick on E-2 that appeared in comics in E-1 must have happened at a parallel time in the past (say, 1945).



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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2007, 01:04:09 PM »

I don't -think- the Spear of Destiny factored into the Superman vs. WW book, but it's been forever since I've read it.  Baron Blitzkrieg (first introduced as an Earth-2 character) and the samurai dude were the villain enemies, and this was around the time that Lynda Carter WW was in the 1940s.  I think the intent was that it was Earth 2 or at least "not Earth 1".

But if is earth 2 why the newspaper of Clark is the planet and not the star,the editor is Perry and not George Taylor,and the logo is the "S" of earth-1 ?
Note that "intent" isn't the same thing as "execution".  Smiley  Simply by virtue of the story being in the 1940s (was it as late as 1945?), people know that it's not Earth-1 "contemporary" Superman.  I don't think that the target audience for those treasury format comics was the comic book person who'd know the vagaries of Earth-1 vs. Earth-2.  If you read Superman vs. Shazam, they have a large preamble before the story covering Earth-1 vs. Earth-S, for example, because that was critical to the story.  What would be interesting is seeing if these events were ever referenced in WW #228-243, when the TV WW was in World War II and the Earth-2 WW was used in the comics as a consequence.
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carmelo
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2007, 04:40:54 PM »

I think that in the charapter of Superman of earth two had many bigs mistakes. The timeline of earth two is until 1951 (the year of last number of "All star comics").Superman work at Daily planet with editor Perry White until early 40s (Star and George Taylor is only 1938-40).The logo on the breast is "Earth 1 style" until 1943.Is clear that ,in a correct timeline ,Superman of Earth 2 began to work at Star in 1938,and in 1940 with Lois Lane passed to work in a new newspaper,the "Daily Planet".Superman of earth-2 had many costumes.The first was that with blue strap boots and simple yellow triangle "S".Years after,in 1943, he refined the design (probably it was make the costumes himself),and had the last "S" logo (the same of Superman of earth-1).The timeline of seals are probably:1-1938-1940 Simple triangle with "S",before all yellow,after with "S" red.1941-costume with The Fleischer logo,1941-1942 The costume with "Earth-2" chest logo.Finally from 1943 Superman had the definitive ,last Chest insigna.On earth-1 Flash and Green lantern start theirs careers in 1956 and 1957.Martian Manhunter in 1955,Batman and Wonder Woman probably in 1951-53.Superman same (as Superboy probably in 1944-45).
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nightwing
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2007, 06:40:31 PM »

My assumption has always been that DC was going for the widest possible audience on the "Treasury" editions, as opposed to keeping them fan-centric.  My copy of this one, for instance, has a price tag on it from Toys-R-Us, which was not then and is not now known for selling comics.  It's entirely possible the Treasuries were early attempts at finding a format that could be marketed to unconventional and non-traditional outlets. With that in mind, of course DC would make everything as "user-friendly" as possible, including using the most familiar version of the chest emblem.  "Joe Sixpack and Sally Housecoat" (as Mr Burns would put it) don't care about fidelity to byzantine DC continuity, they just want to see the characters they know.

In other words, this isn't Earth-1 Superman or Earth-2 Superman, it's "Generic, Approved by Warners' Marketing Department Superman."  What confuses the issue is the World War II setting, but again that can be explained by marketing: in 1977 the world knew Wonder Woman primarily through the TV show with Lynda Carter, which was originally set in the 40s.  Give 'em what they expect.

If nothing else, this book will always be a fave for the introduction of Baron Blitzkrieg, later to figure in the All-Star Squadron.  Well, that and the coloring error in that one panel that made it look like Diana was naked!  Wink
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2007, 07:13:03 PM »

Interesting little tidbit: technically, the first being on Earth-2 to ever learn of the existence of Earth-1 was the Earth-2 Wonder Woman, during a late seventies Martin Pasko-written team-up that paired both Wonder Women together. Of course, Earth-2 Diana was later made to forget it by a magic lasso, but STILL.

Though his BRAVE AND THE BOLD work is more famous, the Alan Brennert/Martin Pasko story about the Earth-2 Wonder Woman was one of the most cornball cool, powerful stories the guy ever wrote.

Sweet Jesus, do I ever, ever, ever hate those nonsense crossovers, like SUPERMAN VS. SPIDER-MAN or TEEN TITANS/X-MEN, that assume that these characters exist on the same earth. Superman exists on Earth-1, whereas Spider-Man exists on Marvel-Earth. It isn't just that, for the most part, these crossovers are badly written. It is that they violate the integrity of Superman and Spider-Man, and insults the intelligence of the reader, by pairing them up on the same earth and not thinking through how such a combined, merged world would look. It ignores real, substantial differences between Marvel-Earth and DC-Earth; you could put the Freedom Fighters on Earth-2 with no real problem, but Marvel-Earth and DC-Earth are vastly different; they even are, as Busiek pointed out in AVENGERS/JLA (the only crossover of this type to ever be done well) of vastly different compositions and sizes.

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My assumption has always been that DC was going for the widest possible audience on the "Treasury" editions, as opposed to keeping them fan-centric.  My copy of this one, for instance, has a price tag on it from Toys-R-Us, which was not then and is not now known for selling comics.  It's entirely possible the Treasuries were early attempts at finding a format that could be marketed to unconventional and non-traditional outlets. With that in mind, of course DC would make everything as "user-friendly" as possible, including using the most familiar version of the chest emblem.  "Joe Sixpack and Sally Housecoat" (as Mr Burns would put it) don't care about fidelity to byzantine DC continuity, they just want to see the characters they know.

You're transferring a modern mentality anachronistically onto the comics biz of another (though not too distant) era. Remember, at this time, "Your Friendly Neighborhood Comics Stores" were literally a godsend that, in many ways, saved the industry - this was the era where, if not for STAR WARS comics buoying the company, Marvel would have filed for very real bankruptcy. DAZZLER, the first comic released through direct sales, sold ungodly numbers that a book of its dubious concept and talent shouldn't have made. And Jim Shooter was once quoted as saying for most of his tenure, the three highest selling Marvel books were UNCANNY X-MEN (in the comics stores), AMAZING SPIDER-MAN (on newsstands) and GI JOE (through subscriptions), and on average they sold about as well through different ways.
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2007, 09:03:29 PM »

Regular comics sold too cheaply for a lot of places to sell them.  The 70s-era treasury format (and paperback format comics, for that mattter) was their way to get in the door in places that wouldn't carry cheap comics.  The downfall was the paper quality and form factor.
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