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Author Topic: It's Kirby's world, we all just live in it  (Read 11910 times)
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Permanus
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2007, 03:26:39 PM »

...who was the punchline of the 1970s joke "What do you call a dog with Wings?"
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JulianPerez
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2007, 08:40:03 PM »

Kirby's women are good looking? Well, maybe if he's paired up with Joe Sinnott, but otherwise...well, take a look at the Barda shower scene in MISTER MIRACLE. I can hardly think of a less sexy shower scene in human history.

And it SHOULD be sexy. It has Barda, a big, Greek-looking girl. It has nudity and splashing water. But it isn't! That's like having nuts and ice cream and making horse manure. In fact the entire scene is so weird, it's like the sex scene in KINDERGARTEN COP where he-man Arnold looks less like he's making love and more like he's oiling the lady up to fire her out of a giant bazooka at bad guys.

Incidentally, Nightwing, I gotta agree with you about a lot of Kirby's 70s Marvel output. I reread BLACK PANTHER recently, and...yikes. Midgets, collectors? I can see why Chris Priest retconned this out of existence as a brain-damaged alternate future version.

But on rereading Kirby's CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON, I'm actually impressed. I formerly despised it, but I guess that's because it is so very different from the Englehart run that preceded it. It's like someone giving you a coke and telling you it's a milkshake.

It's possible to like two things for mutually contradictory and different reasons. Englehart's Cap is still the definitive Cap for me, but Kirby's contributions were weird and loud, with bright Car Dealership-sized flags, and weirdly religious (something even Evanier doesn't touch on).

The Jewish symbology of Kirby is especially apparent here with Arnim Zola. Qabbala teaches that the reason the human body looks as it does is not because of practicality. "After all, if it was, wouldn't the head be better off in the chest, where it would be protected?" (Actual quote.) The head's elevation above the body represents its importance in guiding human action (for this and other reasons, most religious Jews wear the yamulke).

(Incidentally, I always read a spiritual perspective on C.S. Lewis...but until I met other fans and learned more about the guy, I assumed it was Jewish, not Christian! The Lion, after all, is a Jewish symbol, not a Christian one. And having our identifiable characters persecuted outsiders but called to a special purpose in existence is likewise Jewish. I loved Lewis as a kid, but today I find the most complicated, smart fantasy is outright hostile to religion: Michael Pullmann and Michael Moorcock.)
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Permanus
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2007, 10:10:03 PM »

The Lion, after all, is a Jewish symbol, not a Christian one.

Whoa, not so fast! I know about the honey and all that, but the lion appears everywhere, including on my passport.
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jamespup
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2007, 11:10:42 PM »

I'd have to agree.....In the Colosseum, the Lions/Christians rivalry was a big draw
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TELLE
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2007, 03:49:40 PM »

I reread BLACK PANTHER recently, and...yikes. Midgets, collectors? I can see why Chris Priest retconned this out of existence as a brain-damaged alternate future version.

He did what???!!!???

In religious terms: blasphemy!  King Solomon's Frog is one of the high points of western civilization, as far as I'm concerned.  A classic.  Or maybe you think we will all be reading the collected Christopher Priest in 30 years instead?


Interesting about kabbala in Kirby's 70s Cap!  I should reread some of those Mad-Bomb/Nightglider/Bicentennial epics.

Comics are my religion but I like Phillip Pullman too.

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llozymandias
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 03:00:44 AM »

    The Celestials always seemed to (to me, anyway) to be inspired by the Kabbala.  Ever notice how some of Kirby's "biggest fans" seem to be Siegel/Shuster haters or outright antisemites?  Funny thing is Kirby always gave Jerry & Joe credit for creating the super-hero genre.  One thing that always angered him was the assumption (by some) that he had turned his back on his jewish heritage. 
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 06:00:39 AM »

What is up with the knocks on Kirby women?  Come on - Crystal was a babe.  So was Medusa.  Even Barba had some decent moments.  What about the pretty Latina Cap teamed up with in the Arnim Zola story?  So he's no Frazetta (his women make me melt - don't snicker), or Romita, or Buscema, heck even Swan (his girls had that "next door quality") - but Kirby's girls weren't too shabby.

It does go downhill round the mid-70s for sure - but heck, again, there were still a few highpoints.  I thought the human girl character (Freedom?) he made to hang around Kamandi wasn't all that bad either.
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 10:05:34 AM »

Some of my first conscious prurient thoughts were inspired by 70s comics, I'm sure.  Not just things like the image of a naked Wasp strapped to a table by Ultron, but also things like the hair-covered Eve in Devil Dinosaur.  Consequently, I'm really not fit to be an objective judge on the relative sexiness of Kirby's women.  But Criadoman's point about Crystal and Medusa is a good one.  To that short list I would add maybe the Enchantress and Hela.  The 70s FF cover Kirby did featuring Thundra, Tigra, the Thing, and the Impossible Man is a highly potent symbol of my youth, as well.

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