superman.nuMary Immaculate of Lourdes NewtonHolliston School Committeefacebook    
  •   forum   •   COUNTDOWN TO MIRACLE MONDAY: "THE SPECIAL REPORT!" •   fortress   •  
Superman Through the Ages! Forum
News: Superman Through the Ages! now located at theAges.superman.nu
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 15, 2024, 01:56:50 AM


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Where WAS Krypton in the Universe?  (Read 20688 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« on: June 18, 2007, 09:32:28 PM »

A cut line from SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE identified the planet Krypton as being in a fictional galaxy, though it is much more likely that Krypton is in the Milky Way galaxy and that references to being born "a galaxy away" are hyperbole, owing to the presence of Kryptonite all over the Milky Way. What's more, in the Silver Age, there were several stories that had astronomers on Earth observing Krypton with advanced telescopes.

In Cary Bates's "Krypton Dies Again!" in ACTION COMICS #489, the light from Krypton's explosion reaches earth. Assuming that Superman is his traditional 29, and he was 2 years old when he was sent out in a rocketship, Krypton is 27 light years away. Kryptonian light has the same properties as ordinary light, as Superman is often able to catch up with it by going faster, so we can discount faster or slower light.

Krypton being 27 light years away sounds about right. This means that while Krypton was not ridiculously close to earth (not even in the top 100 closest stars, in fact), it is very likely that Krypton's red sun is probably visible to the naked eye. An Alan Brennert issue of BRAVE AND THE BOLD, where Krypton's location is available in star charts, and further, several Silver Age stories that have earth astronomers observing Krypton by telescope, seem to support this.

What's more, Krypton being so "close" to earth (relatively speaking) explains a great many things. For instance, why Kryptonite is everywhere here, and why Earth was Jor-El's first choice to send his son...and why in general there seems to be so much traffic between the two planets, including a Kryptonian colony on Atlantis in prehistoric times.

(As an aside about the availability of Kryptonite...it's very likely that some other condition in the universe is creating Green Kryptonite other than the destruction of Krypton, because the stuff is just too common. Kryptonite, after all, can be created synthetically. What's more, as none of the other colors of Kryptonite can be created synthetically or weaponized, at least on Earth-1, it STILL accounts for the relative rarity of Gold Kryptonite, for instance.)
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 09:35:37 PM »

Incidentally, here's an article from space.com about how they found 12 new stars - the closest of which is 33 light years away, not far from Krypton's 27 light years away is. It's conceivable a star like that could exist nearby and not be discovered.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/missing_stars_020111.html
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Permanus
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 875



« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 10:43:40 AM »

27 light years? Wow, that's certainly close in astronomical terms. It still wouldn't really explain why there is so much Kryptonite on earth - in fact, it would still be a stretch of the imagination to posit that even one chunk made it to earth even if it didn't burn up on entering our atmosphere, but then stretching the imagination is what Superman's all about. (Come to think of it, it's ironic that Gold Kryptonite is so rare when you consider that gold was abundant on Krypton.)

It rather begs the question how fast Kal-El's rocket was travelling: in the film, Jor-El's holographic projection mentions that he has been dead for thousands of years, which is consistent with the idea that Krypton was very remote from earth. If the rocket was travelling at close to the speed of light (and one allows that Kryptonian technology was equal to such a feat), that would sort of make sense, what with relativity and all. It would still have taken Kal quite a long time to get here, though, and indeed he seems to age a few years during the trip: he departs as a baby, but seems to be about three when he crashes. Still, it's scientifically iffy.

In the comics, of course, the trip to earth seems very short, a matter of days or even hours, which you couldn't do over a distance of 27 light years, if one supposes that the rocket can't travel faster than the speed of light. More likely, Kal passes through a wormhole at some point, which makes the distance academic. Maggin has Superman casually mention that he uses wormholes as shortcuts when travelling through space: they truly are a boon to science-fiction writers.
Logged

Between the revolution and the firing-squad, there is always time for a glass of champagne.
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 09:07:26 PM »

Quote from: Permanus
It rather begs the question how fast Kal-El's rocket was travelling: in the film, Jor-El's holographic projection mentions that he has been dead for thousands of years, which is consistent with the idea that Krypton was very remote from earth. 

The Superman movies clearly have Krypton be a ludicrous distance from the earth. The whole "dead for thousands of years" crack by Brando, the fictional galaxy name, and the fact that it took Superman - SUPERMAN - five years roundtrip get there and back.

I have not seen the Donner cut of II, but dollars to donuts there'll be even more references to distance.

The whole conversation in RETURNS that Superman has with Aunt May about how he's the sole survivor of Krypton seemed a little odd. More than one person has mentioned that it might be a set-up for a spin-off or Supergirl movie.

I always thought Supergirl's origin could do away with Argo City, which always seemed like an unecessary "middleman" in the origin; just have her rocket off in suspended animation (or in time dilating near-lightspeed) as an adult from Krypton. Which is what the recent writers did.

Quote from: Permanus
In the comics, of course, the trip to earth seems very short, a matter of days or even hours, which you couldn't do over a distance of 27 light years, if one supposes that the rocket can't travel faster than the speed of light. More likely, Kal passes through a wormhole at some point, which makes the distance academic. Maggin has Superman casually mention that he uses wormholes as shortcuts when travelling through space: they truly are a boon to science-fiction writers.

Funny you should say that, because E. Nelson Bridwell once explained that Kal-El's ship used a wormhole to travel to earth, and it is through this hole that chunks of Kryptonite were blasted to Earth. What's more, that's why Kryptonite keeps on showing up: because the wormhole linking Krypton to Earth stayed open. This also accounts for why so many other things from Krypton find their way to earth (e.g. Kru-El's weapon box) with some regularity.

Quote from: Permanus
It rather begs the question how fast Kal-El's rocket was travelling: in the film, Jor-El's holographic projection mentions that he has been dead for thousands of years, which is consistent with the idea that Krypton was very remote from earth. If the rocket was travelling at close to the speed of light (and one allows that Kryptonian technology was equal to such a feat), that would sort of make sense, what with relativity and all. It would still have taken Kal quite a long time to get here, though, and indeed he seems to age a few years during the trip: he departs as a baby, but seems to be about three when he crashes. Still, it's scientifically iffy.

This reminds me of an unintentionally hilarious Young Earth Creationist Wiki site that explained that the reason we have light coming from distant objects is because at some point in the distant past, God increased the speed of light. Young Earth Creationism and FUTURAMA collide!

I wish I had kept the link; it would be good to have a look at it before it became a wholly infiltrated parody site.
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Uncle Mxy
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 09:20:56 PM »

I've always assumed the movies' timescale is just messed up, because Jor-El screwed up on 28 versus 24 hours.  His command of earth units was clearly skewed...  perhaps he's accustomed to centons and yahren? Smiley



Logged
MatterEaterLad
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1389


Silver Age Surfer


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 09:33:25 PM »

I wonder how Bridwell would explain the adventures where baby Kal left his ship and interacted with things in the cosmos before returning.

http://superman.nu/wiki/index.php/Dr._Reese_Kearns

Its a little odd that Kryptonians lept from no interplanetary flight (and fairly "conventional" rockets to their moons) to speed of light transport.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 09:35:05 PM by MatterEaterLad » Logged
Permanus
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 875



« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2007, 10:08:37 PM »

The whole conversation in RETURNS that Superman has with Aunt May about how he's the sole survivor of Krypton seemed a little odd.

It would have been more than a little odd if he actually had been having the conversation with Aunt May, though Peter Parker, the Spectacular Super-Man certainly has a nice ring to it.

This reminds me of an unintentionally hilarious Young Earth Creationist Wiki site that explained that the reason we have light coming from distant objects is because at some point in the distant past, God increased the speed of light. Young Earth Creationism and FUTURAMA collide!

I love the way they come up with increasingly comic-bookish explanations for anything they find suspect! I know they're worried about things like evolution being ungodly, but why in the world would the refraction of light be some sort of refutation of the existence of God? Hey, did this site you visited feature some sort of cartoon character called Larry the Lamb or something? I remember coming across a creationist site for small children in which Larry (or whatever his name was) and his friends extolled the virtues of creationism and vented their hatred for atheists and, bizarrely, coffee drinkers.

Quote
Its a little odd that Kryptonians lept from no interplanetary flight (and fairly "conventional" rockets to their moons) to speed of light transport.

Yeah, that occurred to me too. I came up with an explanation, though: Jor-El was REALLY, REALLY smart. Best I can do.
Logged

Between the revolution and the firing-squad, there is always time for a glass of champagne.
Great Rao
Administrator
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1897



WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2007, 10:56:21 PM »

Quote from: Permanus
In the comics, of course, the trip to earth seems very short, a matter of days or even hours, which you couldn't do over a distance of 27 light years, if one supposes that the rocket can't travel faster than the speed of light. More likely, Kal passes through a wormhole at some point, which makes the distance academic. Maggin has Superman casually mention that he uses wormholes as shortcuts when travelling through space: they truly are a boon to science-fiction writers.

Funny you should say that, because E. Nelson Bridwell once explained that Kal-El's ship used a wormhole to travel to earth, and it is through this hole that chunks of Kryptonite were blasted to Earth. What's more, that's why Kryptonite keeps on showing up: because the wormhole linking Krypton to Earth stayed open. This also accounts for why so many other things from Krypton find their way to earth (e.g. Kru-El's weapon box) with some regularity.



Its a little odd that Kryptonians lept from no interplanetary flight (and fairly "conventional" rockets to their moons) to speed of light transport.

I find it odd that if you're going to place Krypton 27 light years from Earth, why create a permanent wormhole in order to, in effect, place it right next door?  Why not just have Krypton be right next door in the first place - planet 12, or the former asteroid belt or something.  Originally, it was Krypton that died (from "old age"), not its sun.  And the color of the sun was no factor in Kryptonians having super-powers.  So Krypton could have been right here in this solar system with no conflict.  That way you have all the Kryptonite you want, and the space journeys could have been done with traditional rockets in a manageable time; consistent with Krypton's anti-rocketry history.

I think placing Krypton out in the nether-realms past Pluto makes the most sense.  Then it's not too close, but the occasional mysterious object (like Kryptonite meteors) can swing in close to Earth, then back out on their long, elliptical orbits.
Logged

"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

CURRENT FORUM

Archives: OLD FORUM  -  DCMB  -  KAL-L
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Entrance ·  Origin ·  K-Metal ·  The Living Legend ·  About the Comics ·  Novels ·  Encyclopaedia ·  The Screen ·  Costumes ·  Read Comics Online ·  Trophy Room ·  Creators ·  ES!M ·  Fans ·  Multimedia ·  Community ·  Supply Depot ·  Gift Shop ·  Guest Book ·  Contact & Credits ·  Links ·  Coming Attractions ·  Free E-mail ·  Forum

Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
The LIVING LEGENDS of SUPERMAN! Adventures of Superman Volume 1!
Return to SUPERMAN THROUGH THE AGES!
The Complete Supply Depot for all your Superman needs!