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Author Topic: "Original" Legion of Superheroes  (Read 6952 times)
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Michel Weisnor
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« on: September 18, 2007, 09:26:31 PM »

With 50 years of Legion looming and Jim Shooter's return, I got to thinking when did the original Legion end? Was it after or before Crisis on Infinite Earths?
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 10:27:07 PM »

well, you see .. ermm... now that you mention it... it all started when..er.. hey look what's that over there!!

(flies away screaming)
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 10:30:31 PM »

It was after Crisis.  That's why the whole Pocket Universe Superboy was created, to try to explain why the Paul Levitz Legion was still being published.

Depending on your definition of "end", it happened sometime between 1989 and 1994.
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 11:13:24 PM »

It was after Crisis.  That's why the whole Pocket Universe Superboy was created, to try to explain why the Paul Levitz Legion was still being published.

Depending on your definition of "end", it happened sometime between 1989 and 1994.


Okay, after the Crisis, there was no Legion reboot just a revisionist's history of the Legion's relationship with Superman? So, the original Legion survived through the Crisis until Zero Hour or do you consider the revised Legion a soft reboot? If the latter is true, how many "in continuity" Legion's are there?

1958-1986 Adventure Comics #247 until Crisis on Infinite Earths #12

1958-1994 Adventure Comics #247 until Legion of Superheroes #61? (1994)

1986-1994?

1994-2000 Zero Hour #0 until Legion of Super-Heroes #127

2001-2005 Legion Lost #1 until Infinite Crisis #6

2004-Present Legion of Superheroes currently with Supergirl   
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 11:46:35 PM »


Okay, after the Crisis, there was no Legion reboot just a revisionist's history of the Legion's relationship with Superman?


More like a retcon.  It was revealed that the Superboy that the Legion had known of since their inception and had had adventures with since 1958 was actually a Superboy from the "pocket" universe; and would never grow up to be Superman.

Quote
So, the original Legion survived through the Crisis until Zero Hour or do you consider the revised Legion a soft reboot?

I consider what you are calling a "revised" Legion to still be the same original Legion.  Just like the Superman published in the post-Crisis, pre-Byrne Superman titles was still the original Superman.  The characters published during and after the PU Superboy's death and immediately after the 5-year gap had the same memories and histories as the characters had since their first appearance.  It was all one big continuous story.

In the Beirbaum and Giffen series, there was a single issue where Mon-El died, and in the process of his death, rebooted the entire universe such that Supergirl was replaced with Laurel Gand.  He may have erased himself as well.  This was a separate and later retcon than the pocket universe Superboy fudge.

This was sort of a half-reboot, half-retcon.

Then there was the Zero Hour reboot where Cosmic Boy was revealed to be the Time Trapper.   I think there may have been yet another reboot shortly thereafter that resulted in the recently spun-off SW6 batch becoming the real and only legion, with an all-new new origin; or it may have been the same reboot.  My memory is fuzzy on the details.
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"The bottom line involves choices.  Neither gods nor humans have ever stood calmly in a minefield forever.  Good or evil, they are bound to choose.  And when they do, you will see the truth of all that motivates us.  As a thinking being, you have the obligation to choose.  If the fate of all mankind were in your hands, what would your decision be?  As a writer and an artist, I've drawn my answer."   - Jack Kirby
Michel Weisnor
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 01:32:43 AM »


Okay, after the Crisis, there was no Legion reboot just a revisionist's history of the Legion's relationship with Superman?


More like a retcon.  It was revealed that the Superboy that the Legion had known of since their inception and had had adventures with since 1958 was actually a Superboy from the "pocket" universe; and would never grow up to be Superman.

Quote
So, the original Legion survived through the Crisis until Zero Hour or do you consider the revised Legion a soft reboot?

I consider what you are calling a "revised" Legion to still be the same original Legion.  Just like the Superman published in the post-Crisis, pre-Byrne Superman titles was still the original Superman.  The characters published during and after the PU Superboy's death and immediately after the 5-year gap had the same memories and histories as the characters had since their first appearance.  It was all one big continuous story.

In the Beirbaum and Giffen series, there was a single issue where Mon-El died, and in the process of his death, rebooted the entire universe such that Supergirl was replaced with Laurel Gand.  He may have erased himself as well.  This was a separate and later retcon than the pocket universe Superboy fudge.

This was sort of a half-reboot, half-retcon.

Then there was the Zero Hour reboot where Cosmic Boy was revealed to be the Time Trapper.   I think there may have been yet another reboot shortly thereafter that resulted in the recently spun-off SW6 batch becoming the real and only legion, with an all-new new origin; or it may have been the same reboot.  My memory is fuzzy on the details.

I think I got it. Over the last 50 years, there are 5 continuity separate Legion of Superheroes. The 1st Legion began in 1958 and ended sometime during the Beirbaum and Giffen run (subsequently the 2nd followed). The 3rd Legion began after Zero Hour. Legion Lost is the 4th continuity. New Earth Legion is the fifth.

That begs the question, is the "Silver/Bronze Age" Legion roaming through Justice League of America, Superman, and Countdown the original Legion or a reinterpretation fitting into the 52 multiverse?   
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 01:36:55 AM »

Actually, there was not a reboot in the Legion Lost series, just a new direction for the characters following the Legion of The Damned story arc. They were still the post-Zero Hour Legion of Super-Heroes, same characters and continuity. Only the artists changed, Dan Abnett and Andy Laning writing, Oliver Coipel drawing, and the tone was darker. But it wasn´t a reboot.
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Michel Weisnor
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 02:37:33 AM »

Actually, there was not a reboot in the Legion Lost series, just a new direction for the characters following the Legion of The Damned story arc. They were still the post-Zero Hour Legion of Super-Heroes, same characters and continuity. Only the artists changed, Dan Abnett and Andy Laning writing, Oliver Coipel drawing, and the tone was darker. But it wasn´t a reboot.

Yikes! I was under the impression Legion Lost was distinct from Post-Zero Hour Legion. Thanks for the heads up.

The Legion List

1) 1958-198? Original Legion of Superheroes

2) 199?-1994 Retcon Legion of Superheroes

3) 1994-2005 Post-Zero Hour

4) 2004-Present Legion of Superheroes currently with Supergirl

Next year, there were rumours of 3 Legions meeting. So, if you remove the recton/reboot Legion the 3 Legions are above. Guess we'll have to wait and see.     
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