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Author Topic: Why do they alays want Superman to be "weaker"  (Read 18096 times)
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India Ink
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2011, 03:27:10 PM »

I would say that god among man stories are inherently more interesting than god among gods stories. There's a lot more to work with.

As for Superman, there were some stories where it was shown that his power level might be near infinite--in the late 70s and then again in the late 90s. And it was suggested that Superman is holding back. If he wanted, he could have a lot more power, but this is all the power he can handle.

And that's what is interesting about Superman--at his best--because it's about the man, not the power. There are philosophical and psychological reasons for Superman's limitations.
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India Ink
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 08:43:31 PM »

 ???Yeah, I realize superman need's some limit's. Destroying a solar system by sneezing is a bit extreme, yet you say dragging planets through space is impossible, so they do that and characters like green lantern, wonder woman, and even weaker ones do the same thing so superman is a ....underman compared to them.I think superman should be able to move planets, even if it is with difficuly. If you want to depower supes, keep him the most powerful being on earth and weaken everyone else.It was okay with golden ages superman because back then the world was simpler. Then in comics there was no all powerful darkseid gods or super hydrogen bombs.
Superman get's stronger as we get stronger.
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Adekis
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 05:23:18 AM »

???Yeah, I realize superman need's some limit's. Destroying a solar system by sneezing is a bit extreme, yet you say dragging planets through space is impossible, so they do that and characters like green lantern, wonder woman, and even weaker ones do the same thing so superman is a ....underman compared to them.I think superman should be able to move planets, even if it is with difficuly. If you want to depower supes, keep him the most powerful being on earth and weaken everyone else.It was okay with golden ages superman because back then the world was simpler. Then in comics there was no all powerful darkseid gods or super hydrogen bombs.
Superman get's stronger as we get stronger.
You make a really good point about Green Lantern or Wonder Woman dragging planets around. My argument isn't that Superman shouldn't be able to drag around planets, my argument is that nobody should be strong enough to drag around planets. Including Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Power Girl, Green Lantern, Captain Atom, Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut... nobody* should be that strong.

I have no problem with scaling everyone else back when Superman is scaled back, in  theory, but part of the reason to scale him back is so he can be hurt by super-villains, and if they're scaled back as much as he is, he can't be. You've got to have a balance.

 The Silver Age Superman could have beat Doomsday without breaking a sweat. And that's boring. Scale him down. Maybe Superman can beat Doomsday, but he has to take the rest of the afternoon off to recover. That doesn't make him too weak, but it does make the fight more entertaining.

Of course, you can create that kind of tension with other people in danger instead of Superman, but it's harder to make people interested in "Those unnamed characters must be saved to honor Superman's oath to protect all life!" than "Superman might die himself!"


[*Except maybe Captain Marvel. He's off in a world of his own, a world not grounded by basic physics, because 1) he's more childish than Superman (though often just as entertaining), and 2) he's magic, and hard or even soft SF rules don't apply to him the way they apply to Big Blue.]
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DBN
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 06:16:09 AM »

???Yeah, I realize superman need's some limit's. Destroying a solar system by sneezing is a bit extreme, yet you say dragging planets through space is impossible, so they do that and characters like green lantern, wonder woman, and even weaker ones do the same thing so superman is a ....underman compared to them.I think superman should be able to move planets, even if it is with difficuly. If you want to depower supes, keep him the most powerful being on earth and weaken everyone else.It was okay with golden ages superman because back then the world was simpler. Then in comics there was no all powerful darkseid gods or super hydrogen bombs.
Superman get's stronger as we get stronger.
You make a really good point about Green Lantern or Wonder Woman dragging planets around. My argument isn't that Superman shouldn't be able to drag around planets, my argument is that nobody should be strong enough to drag around planets. Including Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Power Girl, Green Lantern, Captain Atom, Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut... nobody* should be that strong.

I have no problem with scaling everyone else back when Superman is scaled back, in  theory, but part of the reason to scale him back is so he can be hurt by super-villains, and if they're scaled back as much as he is, he can't be. You've got to have a balance.

 The Silver Age Superman could have beat Doomsday without breaking a sweat. And that's boring. Scale him down. Maybe Superman can beat Doomsday, but he has to take the rest of the afternoon off to recover. That doesn't make him too weak, but it does make the fight more entertaining.

Of course, you can create that kind of tension with other people in danger instead of Superman, but it's harder to make people interested in "Those unnamed characters must be saved to honor Superman's oath to protect all life!" than "Superman might die himself!"


[*Except maybe Captain Marvel. He's off in a world of his own, a world not grounded by basic physics, because 1) he's more childish than Superman (though often just as entertaining), and 2) he's magic, and hard or even soft SF rules don't apply to him the way they apply to Big Blue.]

Or, you simply amp up the villains. One of the worst mistakes DC made post-Crisis was to neuter Mongol. Pre-Crisis, it took everything Superman had to beat him and Supes passed out from exhaustion shortly after. Stern and Perez turned Mongol into a weakling that got his ass handed to him by a weakened Byrne-level Supes.

The best thing post-Crisis was that they did away with that idiotic red flashlight weakness and de-emphasized the magic "weakness".
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India Ink
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 07:01:23 AM »

I never liked Doomsday. By what right does he get to kill Superman?

That's what happens when you reduce Superman's power levels--he gets slaughtered by a dime store villain.
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India Ink
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2011, 11:57:46 AM »

couldn't have said it better myself.
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Rugal 3:16
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 10:32:22 AM »

I Mostly agree with the Balance

Personally If Supes has to have a limit (other than Pre-crisis) I would put him on par with Marvel's Gladiator of the Shi'ar Empire.. A Planet Buster (High end feat) but not enough to sneeze a solar system

BUT

If i ABSOLUTELY have to choose only from an uber-broken overpowered Superman or an uber-broken Weakling Superman, I'd EASILY choose the former.
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Otenami Haiken to iko ka
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 09:01:49 PM »

The doomsday storyline was quite pathetic Angry.Especially for after around 60 years, superman actually died. All there was was a biiiiiiig fight, JLA was clobbered, superman was beaten. There was little storyline, there was only about a  page where there was actually  a superman -lois relationship. Cry Just a big smash 'em up.
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