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Author Topic: Supergirl and the Multiverse  (Read 7704 times)
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nightwing
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« on: January 28, 2003, 05:19:00 PM »

Well, let's kick off this forum with a topic.

Though DC continues to maintain the official stance that the Pre-Crisis Multiverse never existed, it also continues to refer to the Multiverse, and the Silver Age in general, in its various titles.

The latest is "Supergirl," wherein Kara Zor-El has returned from oblivion (according to Post-Crisis wisdom, she never existed!) and may be set to reclaim the Supergirl title from its current holder, Linda Danvers/Matrix/Earth Angel.  At this point it isn't clear whether this is "our" Kara or a Hypertime variation, but Hal "Spectre" Jordan has shown up to say that she better go back where she came from or the Post-Crisis DCU will never exist!

This confirms there used to be a Multiverse, in spite of what DC Editorial says. (This is the second time Hal has made reference to the Multiverse: as Parallax, he tried to recreate it in Zero Hour).  It also seems to contradict Hypertime, which held that if there was a Multiverse, it existed in some other reality that has no ties to the current DCU.  Hal, in contrast, says that if the Crisis did not happen as we saw it happen, then the current DCU would not exist.  

What if anything, will all this mean for the Superman books?  When this storyline is over, will Kara Zor-El be re-established as the Supergirl?  If so, does this open the door to the return of other pre-Crisis characters?  In Supergirl #79 Hal will transport Linda Danvers to the "Silver Age" (in essence) where she will live out the life of "our" Kara and, presumably, die in her place.  If he can do this, what's to keep him from mixing and matching other characters?  Could modern Batman meet Silver Age Bat-woman?  Could modern Superman go to Silver Age Kandor?

I think this all proves two things.  First, DC's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing and second, despite what the editors say, lots of writers seem to want to re-introduce pre-Crisis concepts and characters, and even confirm pre-Crisis continuity, by hook or by crook.

Has anyone else been following this story and if so what are your thoughts?
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Rugal 3:16
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2003, 12:57:24 AM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Well, let's kick off this forum with a topic.

The latest is "Supergirl," wherein Kara Zor-El has returned from oblivion (according to Post-Crisis wisdom, she never existed!) and may be set to reclaim the Supergirl title from its current holder, Linda Danvers/Matrix/Earth Angel.  


Wrong Linda danvers and Matrix are two different beings.. they did unite in supergirl number 50 (a story arc in which matrix tried to save linda's life) but the matrix half later separated.. became a bizarro supergilr and the mantle of supergilr was left at linda.

Quote

This confirms there used to be a Multiverse, in spite of what DC Editorial says. (This is the second time Hal has made reference to the Multiverse: as Parallax, he tried to recreate it in Zero Hour).  It also seems to contradict Hypertime, which held that if there was a Multiverse, it existed in some other reality that has no ties to the current DCU.  Hal, in contrast, says that if the Crisis did not happen as we saw it happen, then the current DCU would not exist.  

What if anything, will all this mean for the Superman books?  When this storyline is over, will Kara Zor-El be re-established as the Supergirl?  If so, does this open the door to the return of other pre-Crisis characters?  In Supergirl #79 Hal will transport Linda Danvers to the "Silver Age" (in essence) where she will live out the life of "our" Kara and, presumably, die in her place.  If he can do this, what's to keep him from mixing and matching other characters?  Could modern Batman meet Silver Age Bat-woman?  Could modern Superman go to Silver Age Kandor?


I want to see modern president Luthor meet his old dr.wily-esque luthor and laugh at him for his impatience..

Pre-crisis luthor: Why you arrogant.. I shall destroy you with my robot!!!

Post crisis Luthor: why would I bother to do the same, I'd just shoot you in the head right between the eyes.

Quote

I think this all proves two things.  First, DC's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing and second, despite what the editors say, lots of writers seem to want to re-introduce pre-Crisis concepts and characters, and even confirm pre-Crisis continuity, by hook or by crook.

Has anyone else been following this story and if so what are your thoughts?


Re-establishment of the original concepts is always a part of a reboot.. since not everything was introduced in 1939 when superman was born, the legend slowly grew..

as now it should be properly re-introduced.. and the new continuity has spawned new mythos elements as well some of the best are..

The Four supermen with one traitor

the Mongul/Warworld concept.. which doesn't make Mongul the laughable poor man's braniac he used to be in the old continuity.

Kryptonite also having a slower effect on human beings (although the subject of there being only one kryptonite is a DIFFERENT matter)

Metropolis as a futuristic city.
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2003, 02:29:03 AM »

I'm not sure what DC has in mind with this Kara Zor-El character. I don't have any inherent problem with restoring elements of the multiverse as long as they are used to tell good stories.
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2003, 05:58:14 PM »

Quote
Has anyone else been following this story and if so what are your thoughts?

I'd like to follow it.  I'd very much like to follow it.  I bought Kara's first contemporary appearance in Supergirl #75 and was pleasantly surprised when I ended up enjoying the issue a lot.  Unfortunately, every issue since then has sold out at all my local shops and I haven't had the opportunity to go on a major quest for them.

I did add it to my pull-list, but a few days later I learned that DC was cancelling the title.  Figures. Must have been because it was selling out everywhere.  So now instead of buying one DC title, I'm getting none.

Not having read much of the story, I'm not sure how much of your synopsis is a summary and how much is speculation.  But assuming that it's an accurate description, I think you're spot-on (as usual), especially when you write:

Quote
I think this all proves two things. First, DC's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing and second, despite what the editors say, lots of writers seem to want to re-introduce pre-Crisis concepts and characters, and even confirm pre-Crisis continuity, by hook or by crook.


Absolutely.  But I don't think it's just the writers - I think it's also the fans, a contingent of editors, history, logic, and most everyone on the planet who knows that these characters exist.

So which Supergirl will end up with the mantle?  I'd really like it to be Kara.  In fact, I'd love it.  But if history is any guide, then when (and if) Linda goes back in time/universe to take Kara's place, leaving Kara "here," I'm very much afraid that she (Kara) will probably just end up in limbo once the book is cancelled.

And will we see other pre-Crisis Multiverse characters return in some form?  Again, I'd love it.  But you can only be burned so many times by so many bait-and-switch tactics that eventually you don't bother any more.
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2003, 06:56:52 PM »

Rao:

Over on the DC Message Boards, Bob Greenberger says you are half right: yes, Supergirl is selling like hot-cakes, but that's not why it's being cancelled (even DC isn't that crazy!).  The decision was made a while back to drop the book and Peter David is -- I gather -- being given a lot of leeway to finish it as he sees fit.  What he's doing is going over very well, sales-wise, but, like the O'Neil/Adams run on GL/GA or the Thomas/Adams run on X-Men, it's too little, too late...the book is doomed no matter what.

I'm always intrigued by stuff like this.  Looking back, in addition to the two examples above, now considered classics, we had Frank Miller's run on Daredevil, Walt Simonson's on Thor and a few other examples where a book was doing so bad the publisher more or less said, take it and do whatever you want I don't care anymore. Often the results of these go-for-broke gambits are fascinating, and sometimes they are even wonderful.

As for what's real and what's my speculation, all I know is what I'm hearing on those boards:

Happened:

- Hal "Spectre" Jordan has told Kara she must return to play out her role in the Crisis or the DCU is doomed.

- Linda has taken off in her place

- DC has put online a pencilled version of the cover to issue 79 and it recreates the cover to Crisis #7, only with Kara holding a dead (?) Linda. The advance publicity says "Linda winds up living someone else's life...that of the Silver Age Supergirl! But that's just the beginning of this issue's shocking twists!!" (see the February coming attractions).


Which Supergirl will die?  Will either?  Which will stay in the DCU? Will either?  All that is guesswork.  Some fans are even wondering if both Supergirls will disappear, leaving Kara to somehow become the current version of Powergirl (who despite supposedly Atlantean origins has somehow developed a vulnerability to Kryptonite in recent appearances!)
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2003, 03:49:54 AM »

I got this off the DC site :

Quote
SUPERMAN #192
Written by Steven T. Seagle; art and cover by Scott McDaniel and Andy Owens

Building directly from events in January's SUPERMAN: THE 10-CENT ADVENTURE, Metropolis' new Supergirl makes her presence known in the City of Tomorrow as she fights the villain Radion! Plus: introducing the Viceroy a new hero out to make Metropolis safe!

DC UNIVERSE  |  32pg.  |  Color  |  $2.25
Available on April 23rd, 2003
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2003, 03:57:04 AM »

Supermonkey: That ad refers, I believe, to a 3rd Supergirl glimpsed brieflyt at the end of the 10 cent issue.
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2003, 09:46:32 AM »

Quote from: "nightwing"
Rao:

Which Supergirl will die?  Will either?  Which will stay in the DCU? Will either?  All that is guesswork.  Some fans are even wondering if both Supergirls will disappear, leaving Kara to somehow become the current version of Powergirl (who despite supposedly Atlantean origins has somehow developed a vulnerability to Kryptonite in recent appearances!)



two possibilities..

1. it's obvious Linda will die and the torch will be passed.. just like how it was passed from Matrix to Linda.. but in the process Kara will resume Linda's identity..

the interesting thing would be what her reaction to superman would be..

2. one will become spergirl and the other will become the post-crisis SUPERWOMAN

anyway

THERE IS ALREADY a POWERGIRL in the current DC continuity.. she's a member of JSA.
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