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Author Topic: Who can kick Superman's butt?  (Read 25592 times)
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comicfan
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2004, 05:17:50 PM »

I could kick Superman's butt.

I would break every bone in my foot in doing so, but I could still kick his butt. Cheesy
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ManSinha
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2004, 06:53:57 AM »

Captain Atom is probably more or less as powerful as post crisis Superman.

Also, in a recent JLA trade, Superman says "I can count on the fingers of one hand the beings I am afraid to face in single combat. J'onn J'onzz stands at the top of that list"

Also, there is Silver Surfer website which rightly portrays SS as being more powerful than post crisis Superman, due to the Surfer's ability to manipulate energy.
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MK
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2004, 04:03:31 PM »

Captain Atom is definitively less powerful than Byrned Superman even early Post Crisis.  In The Weird, said Weird soundly defeated the combined efforts of JLI members Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, Doctor Fate, and Guy/GL (I don't recall if any others were in that fight).  Superman by himself not only went toe-to-toe with the guy, but was so powerful the Weird had to hide under Superman's feet to escape.

What Superman says and what actually is portrayed are two very different things when it comes to J'Onn.  J'Onn was beaten against the Weird even with the rest of the JLI backing him up (The Weird accidentally knocks MM back like a child and a JLI member comments the guy must be strong as Superman to handle J'Onn like that).  J'Onn and the JLA fell to the Prophet in JLA:Primevil while Superman singled-handedly beat the bad guy.  MM and various JLA's have fallen to Doomsday, and MM has fallen in single-combat in Superman #175 to Doomsday; Superman, 'nuff said.  I could go on but generally Superman makes better showings than MM, either by himself or with a team backing him up. (BTW, DCCP #28, Superman first beats J'Onn definitively one-on-one, Pre Crisis, and J'Onn is like a child when Superman cuts loose.)  In Superman: Where is Thy Sting?, Superman accidentally knocks MM for a mental loop while trying to get the Martian to help his own mind telepathically.

References to Silver Surfer from DC vs Marvel are extremely suspect.  Venom was depicted giving Superman a hard time, while Kal beat the Hulk and gave Juggernaut a hard time.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
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ManSinha
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2004, 09:49:29 PM »

To Captain Kal:

I know we are referring to characters and books from two different universes but as they are currently scripted Kal-El derieves most, if not all, of his powers from being under the yellow sun. On the other hand Silver Surfer has no such limitation; he is, as you know, the possesor of the "Power Cosmic"...which might make him a tad more powerful.


And by the way...are you a physician that you were taking call?
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MK
ManSinha
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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2004, 09:54:05 PM »

And what of the erstwhile Captain Marvel, billed as the Mightiest Mortal? There are some who might say that he is weaker by definition as Superman has "Powers and Abilities far beyond those of Mortal Men"; however I am referring to 2 Elseworlds books here; "Kingdom Come" and "Distant Fires" where the Big Red Cheese is shown as Kal-El's equal....
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MK
Rugal 3:16
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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2004, 07:29:49 AM »

One thing that's wrong with Post-crisis Kal is that he functions like a battery, the only thing this eliminates is IMMEDIATE red sun weakness.. because a post-C supes when immediately exposed to a red-sun environment doesn't easily lose his powers right away because the "Battery" thing plays out..

the disadvantage however outweighs that little advantage.

Supes has to be in constant exposure to a yellow sun to remain charged, therefore limiting his otherworldly travel.. and the fact that he still needs to breathe makes it even more ridiculous..

The Pre-Crisis power level goes like this..

Pre-crisis kryptonians DEFAULT state are being superpowerful.. it just so happens that they are from day-one perpetually exposed to Rao (the red sun as they call it) the more complicated explanation I can assume is that the red sun functions like the "switch-off" or for example it's the cover that keeps filled water from pouring out for a more ellaborate analogy.. The Yellow sun is the "switch-on" or the act of removing the cover that keeps the water from pouring and is also the default state..

combine other factors like

Hisrory guides the EL family to be the accumulation of the finest krypton could ever breed.. In Final Fantasy 7, this is like Chocobo Breeding where Kal-el is like the Golden Chocobo.. except that the fated destruction of Krypton gives Kal the title "Ultimate Golden Chocobo".. Add that to the fact that the DCU god (The DCU equivalent of the Christian God) guides Superman as someone destined to be "The one" and thus possibly is the reason Pre-C supes has INIFINITE scope in his powers (like say The Hulk has INFINITE strength excepy he needs to be angered in order tobring out more, while supes can simply unlock those by himself)

Still Mongul can't fly, nor can Darkseid, & Supes can see Metallo coming from a mile away.
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Otenami Haiken to iko ka
Captain Kal
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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2004, 03:23:35 AM »

Superman has beaten Thor definitively in JLA/Avengers which is better than the Silver Surfer has ever done.  At best, IIRC, they both have been inconclusive in extended fights.  Superman's supposed power-source is obviously more of a catalyst to access higher-order energies given that even decades of solar energy absorption can't even power a single major super-feat and real plants can't even dredge up enough power for mobility.  He's clearly more powerful given certain crossovers than the likes of the Earth Green Lanterns and they tap into the Source indirectly via the Green Power.  Indeed, the Rampage and Mageddon showings indicate that Superman has his own energy absorption abilities that have sometimes been used offensively, not even counting the Energy Crisis storyline where this ability went out of control due to kryptonite-X exposure.

As for Captain Marvel, though individual showings in their respective stories tend to show Superman as the superior, the more defining books are the crossovers where they match-up next to each other.  DC's policy seems to be that regardless of individual power-ups and showings in their own books, Captain Marvel and Superman are equals in the DCU.
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Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
ManSinha
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2004, 07:07:22 AM »

Does that make Superman immortal?
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MK
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